Deutschland AG rethinks workers’ role in management
economist.com
economist.com
I'm German and my impression is that almost everyone is happy with the current model where you have a legally guaranteed right of holding CEOs accountable.
Everyone, except the American hedge funds trying to squeeze out more profits by increasing working hours, that is.
So to me, this article reads like "let's make Germany more like America in that the rich rule the poor".
And I find it rather surprising that they went with "Deutschland AG" because treating Germany like a country is usually only done by a rather weird tiny subset of citizens who refuse to adhere to laws and instead revel in conspiracy theories about foreign overloads secretly deciding what everyone has to do.
But most weirdly I find that I haven't heard this set of laws being discussed critically in German at all, but that instead an English article with odd word choice should be the first to criticise it.
That said, I haven't encountered the terminology elsewhere, so I was surprised to read it in this article.
"European countries which do not embrace it hardly do better."
Is this actually a problem though? The model seems to have provided some insulation from global turmoil in the past; is having enormous corporations the only important thing for a country’s economy? For as long as it doesn’t fall foul of EU laws, I can see Germans wanting to maintain this strategic advantage that other nations ignore while they’re busy chasing down every last short-term dollar.
So, from a very narrow and short-sighted point of view.. they're just as productive as we are, but they have 1/3 our population and they work fewer hours which limits their ability to compete in the global marketplace.
For German companies that serve only domestically or within the EU, I doubt the councils are a problem or even an impediment.. but for companies that want to operate globally, I imagine it does reduce their ability to compete.
I guess the question for Germany is, do they want to sacrifice these broader protections and slightly better working conditions in order to improve profits for a handful of companies that can actually take advantage of it? I hope not, but it looks like the groundwork is already being laid for a campaign to change this.
If you check https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/exports you can see that Germany exports about EUR 112bn worth of goods per month, on a population of about 83 million, about EUR 1350 per head. For comparison:
Canada exports about 49bn CAD per month, on a population of 38m, for approximately 1297 CAD per head.
The US exports about 208bn USD per month, on a population of 327m, for approximately 638 USD per head.
If anything, the big weakness of the German economy is not that it is not competitive enough, the big weakness of the German economy is a lack of domestic consumption due to not much of the money actually reaching workers pockets; this is a result of a fairly aggressive wage stagnation that set in in the 2000s.
> wage stagnation that set in in the 2000s.
And imagine that. Seems to fit the low wage story pretty well.
Not to be snarky, but you can't do any reading in economics about competitiveness and not encounter the current account balance (which is exports - imports): https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6701/trade/importance-of-...
I should have more forcefully driven for the creation of one in my small company. But it’s all too late now. The company was sold by the owner to a much larger US company and the day after that was announced, nearly a third of employees were fired.
We are developing B2B SaaS and sold that in combination with professional services, with about a 50:50 split in revenue from those two parts. The company built its product without outside investments and has practically always been profitable in the past, with ok revenue growth, but we were seeing pressure from competitors who did have large investments.
The US company didn’t want professional services (and also not anyone doing sales and marketing), they wanted the developers. A couple of weeks into this that seems absurd, especially since they seem to be expecting to keep most of the existing revenue which seems impossible since, you know, we had a 50:50 split in revenue and the people responsible for 50% of that (who had close working relationships with the clients) are no longer there. They are now flying people here but there is hardly anyone to teach them and … you know … usually it takes at least a couple of months to get people up to speed. Months in which our existing clients want to get work done! It’s so irrational. It’s also deeply immoral and unethical.
Whether it be greed or a fundamental misunderstanding of how the product works or what do I know … that whole thing was surreal and weird and I kept thinking that one of the problems was that the person making the deal was fundamentally not understanding the business. Maybe a workers’ council could have helped or at least found a socially more responsible way.
But when the acquisition was only a rumor I frequently mentioned to my colleagues that forming a council would be a good idea but never actually did it. Because, you know, who would want to paint a target on their back.
But it is important for such institutions to exist. Employees inherently tend to have less power than employers and their work is not really optional. They can’t just decide to not do it and changing jobs or career or places where you live can be difficult to impossible. That’s why that isn’t just some kind of exachange of money for work. It has to be specifically and explicitly and strongly protected and workers should always have a say in the business because it concerns them. And their interests and the employers interests are not always aligned.
To give you one example: I used to work for one of Germany's biggest telcos. Believe it or not: That company is unable to do geographically-targeted advertising for reasons of worker codetermination. Worker reps in the company's supervisory board argue that, since some employees get part of their compensation through sales commissions, targeting advertising to region X gives employees in region X an unfair advantage to earn more money than employees in other regions.
Working for the same company, I was involved in a project to do natural language processing in a ticket system the company was using to track repair and maintenance work of radio units, with the goal of building a model to recognize tickets that were in increased need of attention by higher-level management. Even though it wasn't initially the project's goal to do so, the thing that the model ultimately picked up on was basically indications of employees being lazy as they handle those tickets. -- But the data I was given was anonymized. It was argued that if it weren't anonymized, my project would have never been approved by worker representatives in the supervisory board for reasons of violating workers' right to "data protection".
Have you found this situation to be universal in Germany or only at some employers? This is one of those things I'd actually expect "the market" to be good at regulating. Bad union or management kills a company, company with better management or union fills the market void etc...
I really don't see where employees come into this equation, other than perhaps wanting to keep executive compensation low for reasons of petty jealousy.
Meanwhile those same shareholders are very happy to complain about worker's compensation[1], for reasons of petty greed.
[1] https://www.salon.com/2017/04/28/labor-is-being-paid-first-a...
Institutional investor is not a euphemism for "rich dudes". Institutional investors are overwhelmingly things like pension funds and insurance companies, whose clients are people like you and me. -- Even more so in Europe, where stock ownership by individuals and private equity makes up an even smaller proportion than it does in the U.S., and top-level executives in large corporates still make a lot of money.
If a pension fund wanted to, it could represent the interests of pension fund holders in general meetings, although I will grant to you that they don't usually live up to that duty. But that doesn't mean that such a thing as shareholder activism doesn't exist. We are seeing increasing activity by agencies who collect proxies from institutional investors to push for change around certain issues at shareholders' meetings.
...even with all of that discussion, I really don't see why employee activitsm is needed over shareholder activism to rectify the situation, if indeed there were something wrong with the situation.
Furthermore, I don't believe that there is anything wrong with the situation: A C-Suite executive at an S&P 500 corporate or a EuroStoxx 500 corporation should, in my opinion, make more money than a football player or Hollywood star, because what they do is actually more valuable. -- For some reason, the general public never complains about the level of compensation of the latter, even when, as is the case in Europe, it is the taxpayer who pays for this through mandatory contributions to public broadcasting (which, in turn, get used to pay for broadcast rights to sports events and so forth).
It was decided in a court of law that employers can't spy on their employees. It's good that companies are being cautious. Not everything in this world revolves around efficiency and tracking everything.
But this one story I was telling:
Management: Please make a mathematical model that will predict if a radio unit has repeated and prolonged outages, using well over a hundred independent variables, ranging from technical information, to network topology, to information from the ticket system.
Me: Done. Mathematical model says: Radio units have problems if the people servicing them are lazy bums. Here is a system, based on natural language processing, that will predict people being lazy bums with huge accuracy.
Management: So who are the lazy bums?
Me: Can't tell you that. Because privacy.
I mean. Come on...
What could go wrong... I was quite impressed until you got to this point too and thought I had been too harsh.
I'm definitely not someone who is too naive to understand that technology like NLP has limits. But this was a perfectly appropriate usecase for NLP and it worked perfectly fine.
And people acting in this manner should not be immune from repercussions for reasons of data protection.
Your example only shows, that your workers council is unhappy with the provision based system, because it's unfair. Regional targetting would make it even unfairer. The solution is easy: abandaon the provisions and let the people do their jobs.
And thanks for pointing me to paragraph 80 of the Betriebsverfassungsgesetz. I read it just now, and "representing the interests of workers" is totally not what it's saying. It's saying: They should ensure that legal & contractual provisions that exist in order to further workers' interests are observed. That's totally not the same thing. -- Because a law doesn't become law unless the needs of both workers and employers have been considered. And a contract doesn't become a contract unless both workers and employers have agreed. And their role is simply to ensure compliance with those provisions. Where there is no provision, they have no mandate. For example, coming back to my example: There is no legal provision that protects workers from repercussions if there is documented evidence that they have been lazy, so the workers council has no mandate to try to protect lazy workers, yet for some reason they do.
The legal duty of the supervisory board is to watch out for the company's best interests, period. Even those board members who are sent there by the workers council are, in theory, bound by that duty.
I'm not against trade unionism. Trade unions exist so that workers don't suffer from reduced bargaining power when making contracts with employers. But still: Employers and employees are separate economic entities with separate interests who engage with each other over a market interface, with each looking out for their own bests interests (and no one else's).
Workers' codetermination is taking it one step further: You have a company that has certain interests. And you insert people into the decision-making process of that company who observe the best interests of an entity that is completely separate and has completely separate interests.
Imagine the relationship between General Motors and Microsoft as an analogy for the relationship between General Motors and General Motors Employees. With GM having lock-in for Windows software, MSFT has a lot of bargaining power. But each of GM and MSFT look out for their own best interests when they negotiate licensing. -- That's trade unionism.
Now imagine what it would be like if providing software licenses legally entitled MSFT to put people onto GM's board. This would mean GM would actually be hampered in its ability to make decisions that are in its own best interests (both as it negotiates with MSFT, but also as it does pretty much anything else). -- That's worker codetermination.
What you're describing is the competitive one: you have sides focusing solely on their local, direct, short-term interests, in hopes that as they all fight each other, the aggregate state of the system will be a decent compromise. The cooperative way would be if all parties got together, did a global optimization across all their goals, and went along with the result until something changes and it needs to be readjusted.
For some reason, the competitive way is the most common one. It's in what you say about worker representatives vs. company. It's how the whole market works. The good side is, such system is very dynamic and quick to respond to shifting preferences (and shifting landscapes). The bad side: it's ridiculously wasteful, and it turns people against each other.
I suppose the reason the competitive model is more common is because you can't just get random people to do global optimization together - it's hard to ensure honesty and mutual understanding of all participants.
RE wastefulness, I like to compare it to the issue of active vs. passive stationkeeping in physics[0]. Imagine that your village wants a new fire tower. You want to have a few cameras 50 meters above ground for spotting fires. There are two ways to approach it. You could build an actual 50m tower and place cameras there. Or you could go to the store, buy a large quadcopter (and a lot of spare parts), tether it to mains power and keep it continuously flying at 50m. Building an actual tower has a much bigger up-front expense, but then it's essentially free. Getting a camera-equipped drone flying is cheap, but keeping it flying for days, weeks, years would waste absurd amounts of energy, very quickly exceeding all the energy put into building the tower.
Obviously, cooperative approach is like building the tower - the desired goal is made explicit and free to maintain. Competitive is like flying that drone - the desired goal emerges from opposite forces fighting, and requires the battle to go on forever.
--
[0] - it's not the real name of the consideration, it's just how I call it. I wonder if it has a proper name.
As far as the rules on employee participation are concerned, three groups of countries can be distinguished in the 28 EU countries and Norway. In the first group, consisting of ten countries, there is no employee participation. In the five countries in the second group, employee participation is limited to state-owned or recently privatised companies. But the largest group is made up of 14 countries that provide for employee representation on the boards of private sector companies above a certain size. There are large differences in the minimum numbers of employees and other aspects of the procedures for employee involvement at national level.
http://de.worker-participation.eu/Nationale-Arbeitsbeziehung...
Regular employees are interested in the company’s shares insofar as the price is high, not as a means to influence company governance.
Also, worker-owned co-ops seem the only way out of shareholder rent-seeking and narcissistic management behavior because just giving workers input without a fair share of profits is still similar to keeping slavery but adding a suggestions box.
Good thing, so, is the collective bargaining power. That usually increases salaries, in some industries more than in others, and improves overall working conditions.
So I'd say it depends. Especially on the people on both sides of the table. Maybe every company has the council it deserves.
This isn’t quite true... the main stakeholders in a US corporation are the senior management. They will continue to receive lavish rewards even when shareholders, customers and employees alike are all getting shafted. Then when they have drained the last drop for themselves and the company expires, they go straight to the same jobs at another company and repeat.
Executives, too (or mostly)
Even if management doesn't like it, it's good even for them because it helps keep them honest.
This is in the FAQ at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html and there's more explanation here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...