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Comment by GeekyBear | Hacker News Reader

Apple's charger already had a standard USB-A port and has moved to having a standard USB-C port.

It's the cable that they include with the iPhone that has a USB connector on the charger end and a lightning port on the phone end.

That included cable allows you to charge with any manufacturer's USB-C charger in the same way that the previous version of the cable worked with any USB-A charging port.

So, in summary, the cable Apple gives you works with other manufacturers chargers, and the charger Apple gives you works with other phones, using a standard USB-C cable that, I would imagine, came with the phone.

If they want to force Apple's hand specifically, they should be focusing on the port on the phone, not the charger.

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> So, in summary, the cable Apple gives you works with other manufacturers chargers, and the charger Apple gives you works with other phones, using a standard USB-C cable that, I would imagine, came with the phone.

The point is you still need extra stuff just to charge your phone when you switch manufacturer. So what apple provides is in fact not a "common charger", but merely a transformer+rectifier that, using additional equipment, can be made into a "common charger".

You don't need anything but the cable that came with your phone.

Whereas the entire point of the regulation is to not need the cord that came with your phone, but to use anyone's. They got tired of all the proprietary connectors back in the feature phone days.

So they missed the boat by 15 years?

They passed this 15 years ago.

They gave apple the benefit of the doubt with the 30 pin connector and lightning that apple was going to make them standards, apple hasn't made that happen, so now the EU is saying they have to use an actual standard.

AFAIK that is the directive that that was already planned years ago.

I remember many years ago there was a new charger for each version(!) of a phone, so the EU said either the companies choose a common port voluntary or they will regulate them.

That was 2009 shortly after that every major phone provider switched to micro usb, except of course apple.

2014 the first regulation was voted and should have went in effect 2017.

So what specific kind of USB-C cable will be allowed to be packed with my next shiny for the decades to come? What kind of USB-PD will the phone be allowed to support and - if the phone supports a higher voltage/amperage combination than the EU fixed in 2020 - will I have to buy an additional cable to support this?

How did we ever switch from SCART to HDMI after the EU forced the TV manufacturers to only support SCART in 1996? Oh, it didn’t.

This is complete and utter nonsense. Apple’s powerplugs for iPhone/iPad only ever came with USB-A - or now with USB-C. They thankfully switched their lightning port before USB-C was even published, when everybody was still selling broken micro-USB or barrel connectors. There are many problems to solve, but Lightning isn’t one.

They had no problem allowing USB-C quickly, why would the next one be different?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22204605

The rule was in place ten years ago. That's why every other manufacturer ships USB now, and even Apple puts USB on one side of their charger cord in malicious compliance.

iPhones have charged via USB since the first model.

And iPods as well since they switched from FireWire, another open standard.

I’ve been using lightning happily since my non-Apple devices were coming with broken micro USB cables. As a consumer I’ve been very happy with this. There’s nothing malicious about it.

Macs come with usb-c. Why can’t iPhones be also usb-c? I’m not sure I fully understand why everything in the world can’t be usb-c?

The iPad pros are USB-C only, so I think it’s just a matter of time

Because not everything should be USBC, and not everything needs to be USBC.

USB C won’t be the standard forever, and it’s a standard that takes many forms and has caused lots of confusion, so it’s not exactly the gold standard.

USB C isn’t forever, eventually USB D will come around, and what’ll happen? The EU and their (often targeted anti-American-tech) laws will hold phones back, or leave themselves out of the market.

EU isn't legislating USB-C, it's demanding that the industry standards body have a common standard for charging, and continue to develop it as a common standard. The manufacturers are going to be collaborating on the specs. It will be like TCP/IP, DNS, UTF and many other things.

But why does the EU bureaucracy know that charging ports cannot be an important part of product differentiation? I would hope they wouldn’t legislate a common screen size or a common operating system... why legislate a common charging port? I STRONGLY prefer Lightning and would hope that people who prefer Lightning like me can buy Apple and people who prefer USB-C can buy Android.

Given a choice between having one or two charger for both phone and laptop, you'd prefer having 2?

Because the EU isn't there to pamper big corporations, it is there to strengthen the rights of consumers and citizens by strengthening competition. If your company can't survive without selling adapters or locking in customers with unnecessary differing standards (and therefor avoiding competition), maybe it isn't really healthy to begin with.

I would have a different perspective if there was really a practical reason for apple to go the different route — but there isn't.

There absolutely is — Lightning is far easier to plug in in the dark.

How is there no practical reason? The practical reason is implied by context. Apple is among the single most profitable companies in existence, consumers vote with their wallets and their wallets overwhelmingly vote in a manner that supports Apple's decisions. It's a very European thing to point at the purpose of a government entity and assume it's true. Helping consumers? If consumers prefer universal cable standards then they'll favor products with cross compatability standards. The only people who benefit from this government intervention are the EU businesses that can't be bothered to examine themselves long enough to find a way to compete effectively. This sort of disconnected legislation is just another reason the EU has lost significance as an innovator, they'd rather settle for a comfortable and unchallenging norm.

Isn't it possible that consumers don't like needing separate proprietary chargers for iPhones, but it's a small enough part of the overall iOS experience it doesn't noticeably harm sales? After all, phone ecosystems are a duopoly. It's not an area where free market arguments hold water. This legislation lets the industry decide on their own standard. Do you think customers would also enjoy incompatible Wi-Fi standards, or cell modems?

Sure it’s possible but the opposite is also possible and politicians shouldn’t be trying to figure this out. There clearly isn’t some major harm to the world being caused by two different power standards. I can say that I personally vastly prefer Lightning to USB-C. Politicians should focus on the areas where the harm has been clearly established, like in privacy, not some dubious guesses about what power cable people like. And in other places where Apple has their own standard, like AirPlay and AirDrop, I prefer it to the open standard, so I’d prefer if politicians didn’t make laws standardizing the worse option.

To me it's the same as fridges and TVs. I should be able to buy a common cable that plugs into a Samsung or an LG TV and the same for an Apple or Google phone.

One day they might be, but they probably think switching now is too soon. Like the person above said, lightning came out before UBS-C. Apple switched from their long https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_connector#Apple_30-pin_... only 8 years ago. Everyone had to throw away their docks and charging cables. Now just 8 years later you want them to make everyone throw all those away again? Wikipedia says the 30 pin connector lasted from 2003 to 2014, so let people use the things they paid for a couple more years. Maybe Apple will come up with something better than USB-C in that time.

Lightning being a better connector than USB-C doesn't help.

If the cord was still hard wired into the charger like the old days, you would have a point, but this is supposedly about the chargers.

The EU doesn't make a distinction between the cord and the transformer. And given their goals it doesn't really make sense for them to.

If that is their intention, they certainly haven't made it clear.

Everyone other than apple seemed to get the message.

I thought it was to reduce materials waste from making and disposing of the chargers themselves.

Aren't these cables notorious for fraying and breaking?

https://frayedlightningcables.tumblr.com/

Anecdotally, my friends' cables always seem to be frayed. I personally have not owned an apple phone in many years, but I recently bought an apple brand usb-c to 3.5mm adapter at an airport because that's all they had and I forgot mine at home... It stopped working after about a month of very gentle use. It's in perfect physical condition.

The point is, if you have to keep replacing them, it's not a reduction in e-waste and runs counter to the spirit of the ruling.

Is this any better than the cables that come with non-Apple devices? I’m skeptical.

I don't have a clue on how bad apple cables are, but I own a few micro USB cables for phones and Kindles that never frayed, so I don't think so.

The only cable that stopped working was one for a power bank I got as some marketing swag, and that's only because I bent the plug.

I have the dongle that came with my phone, and I ordered a second of the same kind from the website. No issues with either of them. I've personally never broken a charging cable of any sort, except for micro USB where the little prongs stop latching properly. I may just be unusually careful with mine.

I check the electronic waste bin in my apartment building every so often, there's often something interesting I can try and fix.

There are always broken Apple charger cables. They don't have a rubber grommit on the end of the cables, so they wear out.

Android or PC laptop cables that are in the bin are usually in working order, with an obsolete device.

I have about 6 lightning cables and only one has started to lose its rubber sheathing after years of abuse. We all have anecdata.

Meanwhile, every other electronic that ships with USB C never requires extra stuff.

No extra stuff to connect to old devices, no extra stuff to connect to vide/displays, no extra stuff to connect to network connections, etc.

For a connector that was supposed to reduce electronic waste and simply connections, USB C has generated a lot of extra cables required.

> If they want to force Apple's hand specifically, they should be focusing on the port on the phone, not the charger.

It's worth remembering that the backers of the EU legislation started with the idea of reducing e-waste, not punishing a particular manufacturer. Nor is it a Lightning vs USB-C squabble.

Getting people to throw their lightning cables, charging ports, docking stations, etc away would be counter-productive to their aims. The Lightning port has been around for a long time and getting rid of that will cause significant e-waste.

The Lightning port has been around for a long time and getting rid of that will cause significant e-waste.

From personal experience, Lightning already produces significant e-waste. The lack of strain relief means that my family experiences many broken Lightning cables each year.

That's not a Lightning thing, that's an Apple thing. Most of their cables suffer the same problem.

Right, but by using their own proprietary cable, Apple cables (and those officially “approved” by Apple) are the ones that get sold, and the terrible failure rates.

We are talking about new devices, and possibly fines about old ones. Making iPhones with USB-C ports doesn't mean "throwing away" anything.

Strawman. That’s a one-time transition. And do Apple devices even come with chargers anymore?

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