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Comment by cactus2093 | Hacker News Reader

cactus2093

Good points in the article. I also find the model names weirdly confusing, how did the iPad become the smaller, less powerful variant when the Air still exists? They did this with MacBooks too, though I think the tiny one may be discontinued now.

And why is the iPad peripheral system such a mess? The released the pencil 2 which is a significant usability improvement and had every indication of replacing the pencil 1, but that was years ago and they keep releasing new pencil 1 only devices, while just calling both of them “Apple Pencil” in many places. If you want a good pencil now, there’s no way to buy a moderately specced machine with it, you have to pay for the pro with more compute power than a high end laptop.

And ipads now have full usb host support, but instead of marketing that as a perk, they kind of pretend it doesn’t exist by calling it the “camera kit” like it only has one specific use.

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IIRC, the Pencil 2 requires different (and likely more expensive) support in the screen, as well as docking to the side of the iPad and charging magnetically - both of which raise the costs for the iPad. And then the lower cost models wouldn’t be so lower-cost any more. It does feel like they could have thought ahead a little better on that, though. FWIW, the Pencil 1 isn’t a -bad- stylus - it was hugely praised when it was released, the Pencil 2 is just a bit better.

As to the “Air” name... they got to where they had a solid low-priced offering and a “Pro” line with huge prices. And a big hole in the middle. But “iPad Medium” wasn’t appealing, so they resurrected the “Air” name. (FWIW, writing this on an iPad Air 3, and I love it - the only real loss for me, from the Pro, was the “ProMotion” variable rate 120Hz display, and I could live without that, for $$$ less.)

I bought an Air 3 to replace my Air 1 recently and came the same conclusion as you. I got it for almost the exact price of my original one ($400) but with 4x more storage and the screen is larger (10.5’ instead of 9.7’) and laminated/ bonded this time. I use a tablet for media consumption not creation, so I don’t need the fastest processor or a stylus, and the Air line has been perfect for me.

Docking to the side and charging magnetically doesn't just require magnetic charging hardware, it requires a redesign of the iPad to not have curved sides. So far that's only the 2018 iPad Pro.

I had figured this would spread to the other iPads ASAP because of the Pencil 2, but they seem happy to drag it out for a couple of years.

Charging magnetically on the side of the host device is neat, but not required. A separate charging dock would work too.

I don't think that would be a good solution, you'd have yet another oddball charging widget and if you didn't bring it with you everywhere the battery would die and you couldn't recharge it.

If anything, I'd rather they put the charging hardware in the front bezel somewhere, since that's already flat. Not a good place for storage or for charging the pencil while the iPad is in use, but at least you wouldn't get stranded with a dead stylus and no charging gizmo.

That depends where your "everywhere" is. I (like a lot of people) work at the same desk every day, and I trust the battery would last if I brought the device home or to a conference or something. Or I could get/bring a spare charge dock.

Charging daily works until you forget to charge it one day at home, bring it in to work, and it dies before lunch. Or the other way if you keep the charger at work, forget to charge it one day, and it dies that evening at home.

I have a second Apple Watch charger at work (albeit a cheaper 3rd party one) for that exact reason. I don't typically need it, but if I forget to charge the watch some evening and realize that it's at 10% when I get to work the next morning, backup charger is handy. Wouldn't want to lose this Move streak!

Sure, I could get a spare charger for a second-gen Pencil too, but it would be a downgrade from the first-gen Lightning charging which doesn't need anything extra.

I bought an Air 3 with Pencil 1 and yeah it was okay. Went back the very next day to upgrade to a Pro with Pencil 2.

It really is that much better of an experience. Just the ergonomics of magnetic storage and charging make a world of difference. And the pencil feels natural in your hand instead of like a stylus.

Sure they’re still not on the level of a circa 2010 Wacom Intuos – damn I loved that thing – but there’s no comparison. Pay the extra $300 to get a Pro with Pencil 2 if you can.

Now I’n thinking of getting a keyboard as well because the unimaginable is happening - my 2017 MBP feels cumbersome compared to the iPad. Only for Very Serious Work.

I have a first gen pro with the pencil 1 and find it better than an Intuos 3. I wasn't aware the later Intuos got much better, but I have not gone back to Photoshop/Wacom after getting the pencil. The comfort, form factor, and ease of use are just too good to let go.

Another head-scratcher with the Pencil 2 is that Apple doesn't sell a first-party case with a retaining flap for it.

The magnets are strong enough to keep it in place during normal use, but there's no way to put it in a bag and retrieve it without the Pencil flying off.

I eventually got a third-party case that does the right thing, it's just a strange oversight.

A few vendors sell a pencil-sized sleeve attached to an elastic strap that goes around the Apple case; I have one of those and it also works very well. Agree that it's an odd omission.

The USB host support irks me. I have an iPad Pro with USB C and I really want to be able to connect to things like arduinos and other mcus but there is no way to write drivers unless you pay for MFI and develop some hardware that is authenticated. Its really disheartening.

”but that was years ago and they keep releasing new pencil 1 only devices”

Apple doesn’t really release new budget devices; the case may change, but once technology has advanced enough to release an improved top-end device and parts prices for the existing product have fallen enough, they package the parts of the former top-end device in a new lower-priced device.

That turns out not to be true.

The newer low-end models have various changes from the previous high-end models, including case changes, but also other hardware. The original low-end iPhone SE had the plastic case with the hardware of the 5-something - but a smaller display. The iPad mini had the guts of an iPad 2, except it was a smaller device, requiring a new motherboard and display, and it had a better camera, too.

Similarly, the 2017 iPad was closest to the iPad Air 2, just a bit thicker with more battery, but it also had a new CPU and brighter display.

That pattern of component upgrades and size changes continues, and as the GP mentioned, Pencil 2 support (magnets and charging) hasn't trickled down to any non-pro devices yet, in spite of new releases to those non-pro devices.

The iPhone SE had a metal body. I have one in my desk drawer right now. It was fantastic hardware. It just used cheaper cameras and a smaller screen.

My kids still use SEs. It's still a very functional phone. The internals are iPhone 6s era (A9). The plastic phone was the 5c (A6, same as the 5) and it's not even 64-bit so it can't be upgraded past iOS 10. (The SE is three generations newer than the 5C.)

My teenagers love their SEs. Oldest lost hers, tried Mom's old 6 for a while, then asked for another SE.

My son's friends make fun of him for the small screen size of the SE compared to their 7s and 8s but he just says he's dropped it hundreds of times and it's working fine. It's in a case, of course.

> The original low-end iPhone SE had the plastic case

You're thinking of the iPhone 5c, which came out at the same time as the 5s -- well before the SE, which, slightly confusingly, was released after the 6. The SE has always had a metal body.

Woops, sorry, yes, I was conflating the 5c with the original SE release.

So that gives another example of apples making a new low-end device from a mix of old and new components.

5c new plastic body, better front camera and LTE than 5.

SE new low-end device with display of 5s, processor and back camera of 6s, front camera of ??, etc.

The first generation pencil wasn’t bad and it works with all iPads now.

Yeah I use one extensively. It’s great, especially for browsing website with tiny buttons (like HN) and drawing in notes. I don’t think going to 2 is a huge concern.

> And ipads now have full usb host support

And iPhones too, I just used iPhone with USB powered hub, USB mic and USB DAC for headphones, worked great :)

The main design theory of Apple is simple: come up with a great usability feature and deploy it on one model. Then spend the next 5 to 10 years spreading this out to their other models. When people stop buying, just swap in a higher specced component from Intel and talk about how it is 2x faster.

The Apple watch case is infuriating.

Since the new series 5 is a very minor incremental upgrade from the 4, they discontinued the latter, but still sell the 3. This way the comparison table between 3 and 5 make it seem like the 5 was a bigger improvement.

That's not their reason for discontinuing it though - there's no reason for them to sell the 3, 4, and 5. Probably retooled the 4's assembly line to make 5's.

So, you think it's normal for say, car companies, to sell the 2020 and 2018 models, but not the 2019?

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