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Comment by bartread | Hacker News Reader

In the UK it's actually not illegal: it's just advised against, and considered bad form in most situations by most drivers. And, of course, if you cause an accident by undertaking the police will (rightly) throw the book at you.

Examples where it's considered acceptable to undertake:

- In heavier or queuing traffic inside lanes might move faster than outside lanes: this is OK, and it's considered better and safer to stay in lane than keep changing lanes to overtake.

- Motorcycles filtering through traffic, which generally occurs between the middle and outside lane on motorways. Where gaps are bigger motorcyclists will often move from the outside to middle lanes to get around slow moving vehicles in the outside lane. Again, this tends to apply when traffic is heavier.

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If you do it on a reasonably clear road to get around someone hogging an overtaking lane, and the police see you, they're going to pull you over and give you a fixed penalty notice for careless driving though. I know this from experience.

Me too! M4 from London to Cardiff for the Ryder Cup. Had lived in Texas for years, was fresh off the plane and forgot it wasn't legal.

No mercy shown! Jokes on them though I never paid the ticket and I'm never going to.

Your estate will likely pay the ticket with 50 years of interest when you die.

You've been punished enough by sitting through the tedium of golf tournament. :)

I always find it interesting when people brag about not paying fines — especially when the fine is issued in a foreign country.

To me it shows a lack of responsibility and a huge lack of respect for the local laws. I guess not everyone feels that way though.

there is a certain cynicism regarding traffic laws in the US. many drivers feel that some of the laws are in place for the sole purpose of revenue collection or to give the police an excuse to pull you over, absent any real safety concern. in my state, for example, it is against the law to have anything dangling from the rearview mirror. if I so much as forget to take down my parking permit in the morning, I can be pulled over at any time.

fwiw, I take traffic flow very seriously. I will always move over if I notice someone driving close behind me.

> in the US. many drivers feel that some of the laws are in place for the sole purpose of revenue collection

That's not a US only phenomenon. For example, in the UK there is a - somewhat justified - suspicion that some speed[1] cameras have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue raising.

[1] Ahem, sorry, I mean "safety" not "speed", obviously.

just wanted to add some context for the EU readers who I (perhaps mistakenly) assume have a bit more respect for government and for traffic laws in particular.

the US has a somewhat fraught history with traffic laws. by default, police are not really allowed to stop you for no reason and possibly search your vehicle/person. of course, this is very inconvenient for police, so over the years many traffic offenses have been created to remedy this. if a cop wants to (legally) pull over the most upstanding citizen in the country, all they have to do is follow them on the road for a mile and they'll have a reason.

"But it's not illegal in my country"

Interesting. On the A1M heading to and from Peterborough I've also seen them flash and pull people over for lane hogging so at least they're enforcing it both ways.

Super annoying when you're cruising along in the inside lane and then have to cross the entire width of the carriageway to overtake some clown hogging the middle lane: always feels a bit risky, especially if there are vehicles coming up from behind in the outside lane.

Same when you get someone who's pulled out to overtake a lorry but can't be bothered to pull in again even though the next vehicle they'd overtake is hundreds of metres ahead of them.

Like many other things in the Highway Code there may be no specific offence for failing to follow it but the police have enough freedom with fixed penalty notices making disregarding the rules an ill advised activity.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q891.htm

I have no problem with this as long as they consistently enforce against lane hogging in the same way. (In my A1M example they clearly do.)

The Highway Code says you shouldn't do it unless you're in slow moving traffic. RAC article here: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/undertaking/

The problem with undertaking for me is that it reduces options when you need them the most.

If I'm in the middle lane doing 70mph and thinking "I can't pull into the inside because that car is only 30 foot off my bumper", that driver deciding to keep up with me at 70mph or undertaking reduces my outs in the event of a tyre blowout or other incident (e.g. a broken down car or debris in the middle lane ahead).

Where there is a dynamic hard shoulder or all-lane running, options become fewer still and the chance of a problem even higher.

And then there are the lorries on the inside of a 50mph average speed check contraflow undertaking in narrow lanes at 0.25mph more than the outside lane - that's just an accident waiting to happen.

I've also been on the outside lane overtaking somebody who was doing 65mph in the middle lane with an empty inside lane who as I moved to overtake sped up. Not undertaking: just blocking me from moving past and back into the middle lane.

I then had a boy racer come in behind me at 90mph and have to throw the anchor out whilst flashing his lights at me, and my options are basically "hope for the best". We were on a relatively tight corner for a motorway (it's that horrid section of the M60 that runs through Stockport), so deciding to accelerate to get out of this would have meant potentially losing control of the car, and the guy in the middle lane was likely going to pin me there anyway...

For me then - especially in the narrow lanes of UK motorways - it is not just about using middle and outside lanes for passing only, there is a responsibility of the drivers on the inside to allow that to happen and give those around them enough options if they need them, and not doing so should be considered just as much a case of careless driving as undertaking in most other scenarios.

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