Comment by unicornporn | Hacker News Reader

Comment by unicornporn | Hacker News Reader

This shit is everywhere and I've lately observed that the big outdoor brands aren't even close to doing what they can to stop using them. It's even in childrens clothes, all in the name of keeping us dry.

I actually recently tried Greenland wax on a cotton canvas anorak, and so far it's working out great. Perhaps it's not as effective as Gore-Tex. I think we should try to remember that people somehow survived outside before these materials were introduced.

I suspect many of the buyers of Gortex clothing are quite environmentally aware. This could be bad for them if the news spreads. I was completely unaware of the link between Gortex and PFAS

Maybe I'm not looking as much, but I don't see things branded as GoreTex at all anymore. I attributed to something like the patent running out on it. Either way, I see almost no jackets or boots including the GoreTex logo. I assumed everyone moved on to cheaper DWR type stuff, which is probably just as much if not more harmful & full of PFAS.

All the A-list mountain brands' top-of-the-line shells are currently made with Gore-Tex. I just did a quick scan and Arc'teryx, Black Diamond, Haglöfs, Marmot, Norrøna, Outdoor Research, Patagonia, and Rab all do. I can't find a single brand that I'd consider buying a technical shell from that doesn't. The same holds for boots: Asolo, La Sportiva, Lowa, Scarpa, Vasque, and Zamberlan all use Gore-Tex.

uh Northface's top-of the line jackets use 'Futurelight (tm)' for their waterproof membrane.

Outdoor Research have 'AscentShell'

Black Diamond have 'BD.dry'

Marmot have 'Membrain'

I'm not sure what the condescending "uh" is about. All of the brands I listed do have websites so you can trivially confirm their premium shells use Gore-Tex. Here are the ones you tried to fact-check:

https://www.outdoorresearch.com/us/mens-hemispheres-jacket-2...

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/mens-jackets-shells...

https://www.marmot.com/mens-alpinist-jacket-30370.html

TNF still uses Gore-Tex as well, but I didn't include them in my original list - they went mass market about 20 years ago and while less experienced people still buy it based on name recognition, you'll rarely see TNF worn by unsponsored people in the backcountry.

I see plenty of people wearing North Face in the backcountry, all of whom paid for it.

My North Face gear is just as nice as my Marmot gear, both of which are slightly higher in quality than the REI-brand gear. None of them are as good as my Arcteryx jacket, but for the price of that one jacket I could buy a jacket, midlayer, base layer, rain shell, and hiking pants from any or all of the first 3 brands.

The Goretex membrane itself is PTFE, which as long as you don't overheat/burn it, is a long chain polymer that does not seem to be anywhere near as much of a concern as small-molecule PFAS are. The bigger issue is likely the water repellent treatment of the shell fabric, which at least in the existing technology is necessary for breathability -- the garment can't breathe if the outer fabric layer is waterlogged.

One of the many reasons I've stopped buying new things, going for used instead. The off-gassing decreases with time.

PFCs don't offgas. There are practically non-volatile at normal temperatures. They steadily rub off on everything that touches them.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com