I miss Inbox, so I hacked Gmail with a little CSS magic (2019) | Hacker News Reader

I miss Inbox, so I hacked Gmail with a little CSS magic (2019)

modus.medium.com

65 pointsawiesenhofer77 comments

I've never understood why people don't prefer desktop email clients. Thunderbird is really great.

I remember growing up, we used Outlook with our ISP-provided email addresses. The first time I ever saw webmail (it was probably Yahoo or Hotmail at the time) I was just confused. To me, web browsers are for browsing the web, and email clients are for accessing email. Eh, but what do I know. The article was interesting though.

+2 for Thunderbird I prefer my legacy desktop client that everyone else at my company bemoans.

Gmail's keyboard shortcuts are good (at least if you're a vim user). You can easily get them in a desktop client with Mailspring though.

On the other hand, I used Thunderbird for almost a decade, then switched to Gmail and never looked back.

Mileages vary.

I've been only using desktop mail until Inbox by Gmail came along (and it's most important features where ported to Gmain). For me email has become my main TODO management. So everything goes into email and I heavily rely on Gmail's snooze to schedule stuff. On mobile the Gmail app is great but I haven't found a desktop client that is nothing more than 'Gmail in a standalone browser'. So I'm sticking with just having an extra tab open with Gmail.

Web apps are simply easier to use, go to a given URL, log in and you're there.

Which is why we can't have nice things.

See what I mean?

As opposed to "click an icon one time, and you're there".

Gmail, at least before this last UI regression, was always markedly better than desktop email clients. I think they've tried to fix things, but it still is considerably worse than the old UI.

Outlook and Thunderbird are not great. However they probably are better than the current Gmail webapp...

Issues that thunderbird solves that Gmail does not:

* Smarter filters: I can e.g. delete all twitch "streamer has gone live" messages that are 5+ hours old - they simply aren't relevant once the stream has ended.

* Bulk actions. When I get behind on my emails, I tend to sort by sender to decide what to do with 10s of emails at a time. e.g. I might archive a lot of older PayPal payment notifications by clicking the first one, shift clicking the last one and hitting archive. Gmail needs me to click each email to do so. Or search for PayPal, and do another search for the next sender I want to deal with.

Honestly nice interfaces for working on items in bulk have kind of vanished with the transition to web and mobile. Was looking for a replacement for Clementine with its Spotify support dead but the only options were mopidy front ends which sucked for bulk management of tracks in playlists.

* Expandable threading view. I can view an email thread as a tree of email titles and follow the flow. Gmail shows only a single item and then presents it as a flat sequence if I open it up.

That last one, at least, was claimed as a feature when gmail first went live: Grouping messages more smartly based on content, and showing them strictly chronologically instead of in a "confusing" tree so recipients wouldn't miss a response that was in another branch.

I used to be much the same, but being able to have my mail available anywhere I am is useful - even running 3 computers and a phone it always seemed a pain to get IMAP working (nearly always ended up having to stay on POP3 as a result). And gone are the days when you have to worry about having local files on a computer - backing up your email store file of whatever form.

Having said that, I'd love to jump the Google ship if I could find any other mail provider that had a good app for mobile and had snooze, which for me is the killer feature for email.

IMAP takes the same amount of time to set up for me as POP does.

And I have it on my phone, laptop, and desktop without any issues, giving me access to all of my email everywhere. Even when I'm entirely offline.

YMMV and all, but I’ve also had very good luck with IMAP. The only exceptions have been with Gmail due to it not following IMAP spec correctly, but that’s easy to fix… just use email services with proper IMAP implementations instead of Gmail.

I have never been in any corp that doesn't use dedicated e-mail clients. Outlook mostly of course, but some did indeed use Thunderbird.

Thunderbird could use some monetary support last I heard. And/or developers.

Gmail has a good webmail interface, but I only use it in dire circumstances. It is not my primary mail either.

I guess beyond UI/UX, a key pain point that webmail solved is synchronisation. Whatever the change you do on whatever device, the state is managed by the server and reflected the same everywhere. Much easier than POP/IMAP/Exchange. The drawback is that you have to be always connected.

Thunderbird synchronizes too. IMAP works online and I have a copy while I am offline. I don't see how a webmail client is any better.

For one I find search to be slow in desktop clients.

Or Claws mail for the Raspberry Pi.

"I've never understood why people don't prefer desktop email clients"

I used to, but these days I switch between a work desktop, my phone, my home desktop, etc. So consistency of features matters. Also things like a "draft" I did on my mobile shows up on the web client on my Linux desktop, custom filters, signatures, are the same everywhere, etc.

The web and mobile-native clients for Gmail, Outlook, etc, work more the same than switching between something like Thunderbird and something else.

I used web mail too, but when I switched to a self-hosted mail server, I learned to love Thunderbird and K9-email (on Android).

I love Thunderbird, have used it for years and use it on all my laptops and desktops. But the search is absolutely awful! I can search for something using Mail App on my iPhone and it'll mostly find pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. On Thunderbird it never seems to even get close.

My first email address was an address through our ISP I accessed through outlook and then Thunderbird. I was too young to really have a use for an email so I never really used it. By the time I got my own computer when i was a bit older, I realized my step dad had access to the email from the ISP(as well as a creepy amount of logging and monitoring on the computers in the house I ended up having to find ways around) so I got a hotmail address and have used webmail ever since.

These days, I just don't really have a need for an email client, I do most of my emailing through my phone and don't use it as often as I did between 2008-2012 or so. Those were probably my heaviest emailing years.

Basic HTML Gmail hasn't changed in years and works perfectly fine for all of my needs for gmail: reading and sending emails. I find the current UI to be quite unusable, but at least there's still the basic html option.

Same here. It load amazingly quickly and fulfills all my email needs. I'm using this simple userscript for VIM-like keyboard shortcuts:

https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/389680-google-mail-gmail-b...

Yep it's great. It loads way faster than IMAP would, I can see more than 40 emails on my screen at one time, and it has a very nice practical 2000s aesthetic with no unnecessary whitespace.

People use the web interface for GMail ?

I just have it set up via IMAP on my laptop, tablet and phone. No need to ever use it via the web interface. What would be the advantage of using the web interface vs. just using a native mail client ?

The first circumstance that comes to mind is when you don’t have app installation privileges.

Thunderbird portable can help you here. But my first step would be to escalate while not having those privileges. Let yourself be put in another network if there are security cocerns.

> What would be the advantage of using the web interface vs. just using a native mail client ?

For a generation of people who have only ever had a single email provider, the web interface works well enough. Native mail clients have disadvantages too. Few native mail clients are cross-platform whereas Gmail's web interface is consistent across devices. The web interface is also very obviously not tied to the device. I know that it merely is out of ignorance, but I can't tell you how often someone has told me that they can't check their email right now "because it is on the computer at home". Not to mention that IMAP/SMTP configuration might as well be black magic to most people.

A lot of native mail clients don’t work well with GMail labels or “archive” feature. Labels are represented in IMAP as individual folders, so emails get duplicated multiple times locally if they have multiple labels. Also, Filters and other settings can’t be managed through IMAP.

I used to use Apple Mail with IMAP, but nowadays I split the difference and use Mailplane to access my Gmail on desktop (essentially an application that shows the web app in a window), and the Gmail native apps on iPhone/iPad.

Some organizations don't get IMAP permissions

GMail has ads? Never noticed so UBlock origin did its job well

I find the GMail UX to be a simple for basic tasks e.g. opening an email But anything more is rather annoying

uBlock Origin + these settings make gmail very clean and distraction-free. It's also much easier to use for non-techies (parents, grandmas) with these settings:

[General] Hover actions: Disable

[General] Smart Reply: Off

[General] Button labels: Text

[Inbox] Inbox type: Unread first [see note]

[Inbox] Importance markers: No markers

[Inbox] Filtered mail: Don't override

[Chat] Chat off

[Advanced] Unread message icon: Enable

[Settings icon] > Display Density > Compact

NOTE: I find the [Inbox type] setting of "Unread First" works extremely well for myself and others, but this is a preference you will want to set based on the user. Either way, get rid of the multi-tabs!

My first thought was, here is someone technically skilled enough to modify the css of a page they do not own, yet they aren't blocking ads with an adblocker? I hope they did not waste the time on hiding the ads manually..

I know many SW engineers that will keep ads on as a matter of principle. They like to support the sites they use the most and believe that giving back in views/clicks is okay.

I'm with you but different folks different strokes!

That's what you have exceptions for. (whitelisting)

I use Firefox with noscript + ABP for general purpose browsing and default Chrome for Google-related tasks. I find that ads serve as a reminder to think about whether I should be doing something in Firefox instead.

I never thought the intention was people actually look in the promotions or social tab, so it's odd here it's being viewed as a way to keep people in Gmail.

To me it felt like a way to quarantine the Facebooks and linkedins of the world which email you every time a contact sneezed, or the stores that opt you into promotional emails in a way that doesn't shame those companies enough into trying to bypass it or complaining about anti-competitive behaviour if they got rightfully classed as spammers.

There is another way. GMail allows to use compact interface. There is option to turn it on: click on 'gears' icon in top right on the top of table/list with e-mails and switch onto compact view. You can also turn off those "Primary", "Promotions", etc. labels.

Yes, this. With no external (CSS) tweaks my Gmail interface looks just fine, tight and compact:

https://piks.nl/upload/upload/chrome_2020-01-24_13-26-06.png

Those are options but definitely don’t come anywhere near what the author has achieved! I’m actually very impressed with the new interface.

I can’t believe it, but I’m actually at the point where I no longer enjoy using Gmail. I have an easier time using the Windows Mail application at this point... which is really telling I think.

The pain of maintaining this long term (look at those CSS identifiers with jibberish names, you know those aren't set in stone) is going to be worse than the pain of adapting to crappy Gmail.

You know what else sucks about Gmail, other than just the design?

* There's no option to consolidate multiple emails into a single thread (so you're at the whim of the sender to maintain the same thread)

* There's no "Send after X duration" or "Send at X time", so you can't write something at 3am and schedule it to be sent during work hours. [Edit: I stand corrected, there is a Scheduled Send option now]

* There's no way to add private notes to email threads. So if I'm told something over the phone which is relevant to the email conversation (but private), I have to dump it into some other notes app where I'll lose it. [Edit: No, confidential mode is not what I'm looking for]

I've said the same thing about FastMail before, these email guys SUCK at innovation.

The only thing good about Gmail is the spam detection and the superior deliverability of using a Gmail address.

> There's no "Send after X duration" or "Send at X time"

They added scheduled send recently. https://support.google.com/mail/answer/9214606

> There's no "Send after X duration" or "Send at X time", so you can't write something at 3am and schedule it to be sent during work hours.

Actually, this exact feature exists:

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/9214606

Agreed on the point about maintainance!

As to your other points:

* There actually is a "scheduled send" send feature, but it is a bit hidden: The "Send" button has a little dropdown arrow, there you can select "scheduled send". Don't know how long that has been there, I remember missing that feature, too.

* There is "confidential mode", which I haven't used extensively, but that might be what you are looking for. It's one of the buttons next to "Send".

> * There's no "Send after X duration" or "Send at X time", so you can't write something at 3am and schedule it to be sent during work hours.

I have this feature. Next to my Send button is a dropdown to Schedule Send at a time.

> There's no "Send after X duration" or "Send at X time", so you can't write something at 3am and schedule it to be sent during work hours.

You can though. Gmail supports the open source protocol called IMAP(v4) and SMTP. You can use a different MUA than the webmail one, such as (partly FOSS) Mailspring, which has this feature. Heck, you could even use 'at' to send an e-mail from CLI, using any SMTP server you got authorized access to (including Gmail).

> I've said the same thing about FastMail before, these email guys SUCK at innovation.

I don't know about that. I've never used FastMail. I do know these FastMail people are behind JMAP [1], a successor of IMAP4. They're behind the IETF draft of it as well.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON_Meta_Application_Protocol

"* There's no way to add private notes to email threads. So if I'm told something over the phone which is relevant to the email conversation (but private), I have to dump it into some other notes app where I'll lose it."

There are several extensions available which add this ability. Two are "Simple Gmail Notes" and "Gmail Notes". There are several others. Some free and some paid.

Alternatively, I will reply to myself at that point in the thread. Just have to make sure you don't include this when conversing later, which isn't a problem as I generally reply to the other person's inbound.

Sending myself emails as notes is the stickiest note taking app I've had in 20+ years of internetting.

I solved the Gmail UX problem by switching to a completely different email provider, Migadu.

I use https://simpl.fyi/, much more radical.

"Simplify was made by me, Michael Leggett. I was Gmail's lead designer from 2008 to 2012 and co-founded Google Inbox."

I suppose there's not going to be a better "make Gmail look like Inbox" solution than this.

Some of these suggestions are just settings. For example, you can turn off the Hangouts integration and turn off the tabs.

I like some of the others, such as turning off ads and widening lines.

One odd thing... I don't think I've ever seen ads. Maybe my ad blocker is clearing those for me already.

> Gmail is not designed for the user. It is designed to maximize your time spent in Gmail.

When I read this, all those weird unrequested changes Google made to Gmail made so much more sense.

To be honest, I think the way to go about implementing this would be to either use the basic HTML version of the web page (which seems to change rarely) or to build a native app and communicate with something like POP. This solution, as nice as it is, is really quite flakey.

In the same breath, I can really recommend switching to Thunderbird. I run all my emails, RSS feeds and instant messaging through it all whilst being able to keep local backups of this valuable data.

I really don't understand why everyone has spent the last decade trying to get rid of colour in the GUI. Google themselves are one of the worst offenders (e.g. Docs and Sheets toolbar buttons), but Apple isn't far behind (e.g. finder sidebar icons).

Even for someone with mild colourblindness, removing all traces of colour from a set of icons / buttons / labels just makes it harder to find the right one quickly.

I’m Joey, the maker of DarwinMail.

—

DarwinMail aims to help you be your most productive when dealing with emails & todos.

Problem Inbox by Google was one of the best products they ever made. And then they shut it down.

Solution Introducing DarwinMail, which aims to replace and become better than Google Inbox ever was.

—

How & Why

- How can DarwinMail become better than Inbox by Google?

- Why would we use you over competitors?

1. We will not sell your data, abuse our power or ignore your requests...

2. Because we respect your privacy.

3. We understand that the product can only become great if each & every suggestion is listened to.

4. We have a public roadmap, public changelog, and open lines of communication.

5. The primary focus of Darwin Mail is to help you be productive. Each and every change is made for that sole reason.

—

Features

- Snoozing Running late? Or need to forget about an email for now? Snooze your emails and take care of them later.

- Reminders Clear your mind with our reminders feature. Jot down your reminder so you don't forget about it.

- Dark Mode A sleek and less distracting option for managing your email & todos while ensuring you're at your most productive.

- Undo Send Do you ever wish you could take back what you just said in that email?

- Custom Backgrounds Choose a custom Unsplash HD background to be displayed behind all your emails, ensuring you feel at home in your Inbox.

- Templates Create multiple email templates (product launch, feedback, promotion, testing, recruiting etc) and use them in your emails to save you loads of time.

- & much more according to your requests! Just let everyone know exactly what you would like!

—

Darwin Mail will evolve to become great over time, thanks to its users, and thanks to you.

[1] https://www.darwinmail.app

[2] https://twitter.com/joeytawadrous

There's a small irony in you advertising your platform in the wake of all the comments and OP complaining about ads in Gmail.

oh my god i do miss inbox! funny how time flies because i even almost forgot about it. what i miss most is the auto grouping (tagging? or whatever it was called) and the one column layout. i found it less distracting. never had the sidebar opened!

inbox was email that simply worked. never got in your way. not for the "pros", that's what gmail is for. it had its place. and yet...

Google dropping inbox was what finally got me abandon their products as much as I could. Switch to Firefox and use DDG as my primary search provider.

FYI, Darwin Mail[0] was made soon after Inbox shuttered as a paid alternative. I gave it a spin but didn't stick with it mainly out of apathy.

[0] https://darwinmail.app/

Yes, Inbox was great! Now that I can quickly archive or delete emails (on Android at least) with swipes I at least get by with Gmail.

I agree with everyone else who recommends an email client like Thunderbird if you want to avoid the web client!

I had no idea that there are ads in Gmail. This is infuriating.

I would be absolutely fuming, but I don't use the web client, so I didn't realize this was a thing. But holy shit! How is that okay?

There have been ads for over a decade, but they didn’t appear within the interface as if they were mail.

Yeah I should probably have clarified.

It seems like such a dark pattern. It's astoundingly evil to me.

I am sure many agree with you and would happily use your free email service that doesn't have ads.

It's a free service. Free as in free beer. There are real costs in hosting an email service, they need to pay for it somehow.

If you don't want ads, just pay for a G-suite account.

Well that would certainly explain why I haven't seen these ads - I pay for G-suite.

Nonetheless, I find this to be heinous. Practically the same as Google vouching for spam emails, pushing them directly into your inbox.

To fix this once and for all, just use Fastmail. It has a beautiful and fast interface. And you can use your own domain, so you're not stuck with Google 4 life...

I miss Inbox too, it was a pleasure to use it.

My inbox was always empty, no spam e-mails no useless stuff.

Only actionable e-mails and scheduled tasks

The people behind it should start a new business based on it.

For the tabs, Settings -> Inbox -> Inbox Type can disable them.

Those CSS classes they're overriding look _awfully_ fragile.

Is there anyone else who has problems with medium.com? :/

Yes, it requires me to create an account to be able to read the article. And this, kids, is why you shouldn't use Medium if you want people to read your stuff!

yay -S neomutt

Why the hell is email so hard for people? You just answer an email or ignore + archive it when it comes in, it takes 15-20 minutes a day. Everything is searchable from there in a simple search bar. I have been in management so don't use 'too many emails' excuse. I was honestly surprised when people started talking about 'inbox zero' a couple years ago. I legit could not believe professional software people can't manage their email.

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