Hundreds of surveillance experiments along the U.S.-Mexico border | Hacker News Reader

Hundreds of surveillance experiments along the U.S.-Mexico border

github.com

167 pointsdanso33 comments

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Using github for what amounts to reporting from investigative journalism is a fascinating use case.

These are some of my favorites!

If anyone has anymore Githubs like this, please link them :)

https://github.com/fivethirtyeight/data

FWIW, some other examples of journalists using Github to post the data and scripts behind investigations:

https://github.com/BuzzFeedNews/everything

https://github.com/datadesk/notebooks

With something as important as data at the border being farmed out to so many parties, I can hardly trust information can be kept securely with so many 3rd party relationships, especially with foreign firms.

Note that it looks like this technology is being deployed at the border not at border crossings.

What threats are you worried about here?

Privacy of people in the process of illegally immigrating? I don't think the people deploying these experiments share your concern.

Privacy of people who happen to live near the border? It seems unlikely that they are collecting much data on them, just because it's not useful to collect... I can see it being a real concern if they are collecting data on them.

Privacy of troop movements? Are there serious adversaries who are more likely to be aided by this data leaking than they are to be hindered by the increased surveillance? If a real war broke out on the US border I'm sure we would quickly become more selective about the providers, and where the data from the instruments is going.

> Privacy of people who happen to live near the border? It seems unlikely that they are collecting much data on them, just because it's not useful to collect... I can see it being a real concern if they are collecting data on them.

I could easily see an agency argue that it needs to collect data on everyone near the border in order to track coyotes and others inside the country assisting with border crossings, etc.

After Snowden, it's hard to envision any agency with surveillance powers opting not to collect data for not being "useful". The justification is definitely there for those who are adamant about collecting the data.

Right, because these companies are spending millions of dollars on R&D for new technologies that will only ever be used along the US/Mexican border.

How about being worried because it's inevitable for this technology to be deployed elsewhere?

And that's just one of the obvious problems.

Fascinating. The article is talking about surveillance blimps and I can't help but wonder if someone is working on repurposing that tech to detect fires at their onset.

A lot of forest fires just starting are actually reported by small airplane pilots who notice them from the air. The controllers pass the information along to the proper authorities very quickly. I've reported a few. I note that half an hour later, there is already a response. So I guess NorCal approach calls the right people pretty quickly. So in a way, this is already being done.

Well, there are satellites that have far larger fields of view, so the question is how much smaller fires you can see with a blimp compared to a satellite.

How many satelites are devoted to reporting fires on the other hand?

https://github.com/marcdacosta/border-radio-investigation/bl...

Anduril doesnt even show up, which probably means that it's overstating its progress.

A company called Ticom Geomatics has applied for the most experimental licenses.

From their homepage: "we offer challenging projects where the results make a difference globally"

Note: "Make a difference" can be double-speak.

They also mention their "diverse and collaborative environment". I wonder if there are Mexicans on their staff.

This is a picture of their staff. It looks reasonably diverse: http://www.ticom-geo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/tgi-grou...

Remember, legal immigrants (from Mexico or anywhere else) tend to be among the strongest opponents of illegal immigration.

This is like saying that people who sleep legally in their own homes are among the strongest opponents of those who sleep illegally under overpasses.

I doubt there is much overlap in the two immigrant populations beyond their country of origin.

I don't understand how you look at that staff picture and say that it's "reasonably diverse".

Do you know their backgrounds? Do you know whether they were raised rich or poor? Perhaps some come from the Eastern states, some from the West, others from the south. Some are young and some are old. Maybe some like classical music while others prefer rap. Some like long walks on the beach while others like spending time hiking in the forest.

Lots of diversity is probably contained in that photo, just not the superficial type you're most fixated on.

The comment I replied to said that they look diverse. So how do they look diverse based on that picture alone?

Based on that picture alone? Some tall, some short, some old, some young, some men, some women, some skinny, some fat, etc. Lots of superficial diversity in that picture.

Well, in the traditional sense of diversity, I see just about every race/ethnicity represented there. It's very diverse staff represented in this picture.

"Note: "Make a difference" can be double-speak."

Yes, just like "make the world a better place" can be.

Why are we spending presumably billions of dollars restricting movement of people? It would be by far cheaper to open the border and allow working age migrants to pay into our tax system legally....

Follow up to this: First it's tested on the illegal citizens, then it's tested on the legal ones.

What's an "illegal citizen"?

I think I might need to clarify my point here. I'm not placing any blame on migrant workers who come to the US to make a living, my biggest issue is with companies that take advantage of this labor without taxes. Having an easier system for migrant workers to have legal status here (i.e. able to bank in the US, pay taxes, etc) would raise their income, and benefit the US as a whole.

How would a massively increased supply of unskilled labor (which is already abundant) raise anyone's wages? Say, for instance, tomorrow it became really, really easy for companies to hire programmers. Do you think the wages would go up or down?

Because 12 million illegal aliens are currently paying something like $11B in taxes. That's $916 per person, per year. Now, some of that is because they're here illegally, but I bet a major part of it is that they aren't making much money, and in the US people who don't make much pay little to no taxes at all. Some even get money back from the government.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_imm...

Defense paying for a lot of R&D that will be materially useful in a lot of areas.

Now we just need a ton of legislation to protect us from entities using this tech when they shouldn't.

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