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Comment by zdw | Hacker News Reader

Thus why you should only buy ebooks where you get easily transferrable formats, like unencumbered PDF or ePub.

I'm a big fan of O'Reilly's multi-format approach. This is the correct end-run around proprietary stores.

Regarding this issue in particular, I don't see the problem with Amazon and others kicking their users out to Safari to do purchases, and thus as the purchase wouldn't happen "in app" it wouldn't be covered by this.

Not as smooth of a purchase experience, but not impossible to deal with.

The other alternative would be to tack on a 30% surcharge on any books bought directly through the app.

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" I don't see the problem with Amazon and others kicking their users out to Safari to do purchases"

At least as far as I can tell from this article and others, this is one of the things that Apple wants to disallow. At least there must also be an option to buy using the Apple system, giving Apple a 30% cut. And I highly doubt that Apple's going to allow an app that says "click here to buy through Apple, click here to buy through Amazon for 30% less".

That would be the core issue - I'm not sure Apple would even allow a "Buy Books" button that jumps to their website from within the Kindle app.

At most, maybe a "Visit Amazon Website" button that goes to the home page, then after Apple approves the app have their site detect iPad users linked from the app, jump them directly to the Kindle bookstore. That's the best end-run I could come up with.

Kindle books are purchased through a WebKit view of Amazon.com in the iPad app now. That's what Apple is saying can't continue and that there needs to be In App Purchasing support. While it has been implied, I haven't heard specifically that they require the pricing to be the same (so you can't charge more for In App purchases to cover the 30% Apple VAT).

I'm not seeing this in the Kindle app on my iPad. Clicking on "Shop in Kindle Store" kicks you out of the app and into MobileSafari.

MobileSafari = WebKit view

OK, sorry to be pedantic, but, no. MobileSafari != WebKit view.

Actually it is, he assigned it in the parent post, == is the equality test. :)

ok, but why would (MobileSafari == WebKit view) be false?

In support of unencumbered formats, think about how Apple became dominant. iPod/iTunes initial success + music labels insistence on DRM, lead to lack of content portability, lead to device lock-in, lead to iPod dominance, lead to music labels loosing power.

This is different from Kindle, where they write a player for every platform. But is what you get if you sell through Apple's store for Apple's reader.

O'Reilly wins with their deals. I buy books I wouldn't otherwise.

I bet broadcasters are glad Apple wasn't around when the first TVs were manufactured.

Amazon writes a player for every platform because the kindle format is a proprietary one created by amazon.

Apple doesn't have to write a player for every platform because epubs are an open standard.

Yes ePub is open. But Apple's DRM is not an open standard. I assume they are adding DRM to content sold thru their book store?

the iPod didn't become dominant due to device lock-in.

That's correct. People could rip their CDs and also use MP3s they already had. The Kindle wouldn't even allow Amazon's own MobiPocket books that had Mobi DRM on them to be read! And, of course, neither the Kindle hardware nor software for platforms can read ePub.

You can get any content onto an iPod, but you can't take the DRM-protected content bought thru iTunes anywhere else, including streaming with Slimserver, etc. And people now presumably have a large collection of content that is managed the iTunes-way, with a significant subset that is DRM protected. Meaning you're locked to Apple's devices.

"Thus why you should only buy ebooks where you get easily transferrable formats, like unencumbered PDF or ePub"

But is there any big player in the ebook market which comes even close to Amazon (collection-wise) and sells non-DRMed books/PDFs? From what I've seen there are no viable alternatives for non technical reading... (and no, shopping at several small publishers' websites is not a viable alternative)

I'm betting we'll get there in a few years, the same way it happened with music - DRM for a while, then once people get used to paying for stuff, the DRM goes away in most cases.

Unfortunately, if history is any indication, the last place this will happen is in school textbooks which is honestly where the ebook revolution should start.

"the DRM goes away in most cases." It seems to me tough that music is the exception to the rule. Computer games mostly have some form of copy protection. Most computer programs have copy protection, minimally with a serial number, many with activation schemes. One of the "features" of web applications is that it's practically impossible to pirate them. How can we know that ebooks will be any different?

With music and books, there is always the analog hole and then once one good copy is made, it can be duplicated forever. Also they are both naturally suited for self contained offline access which is less costly and cumbersome than requiring a network connection. So I think the parent poster is right and copy protection will not be successful in ebooks just as it was not with digital music files.

That would be a ~43% surcharge, actually. Quite a lot.

Although Amazon then don't have to pay their own credit card fees. But yes.

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