Cartridge cannot be used until printer is enrolled in HP Instant Ink
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That‘s about the time I switched to laser printers. Currently I equipped myself and my family with a Brother HL 3152CDW. I got it for around 160-180€. The included toners print 1-2k pages. A new toner does 2-2,5k and costs around 60€ per color (genuine Brother) or around 50-60€ for a 4-color-toner set from noname brands. We have the printer since maybe 3-4 years and had to buy 1 black toner. I think I got a noname cartridge for around 25€.
If you want a smaller device and save a little money, get a b/w laser printer for less than 100€.
If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks. It takes a few minutes to print dozens of photos and it‘s cheap, around 0,20-0,30€ per print (10x15cm).
I hope laser printers will never become such a scam product like inkjet...
>If I need to print photos, I go to a store with instant printing kiosks.
Your solution to inkjet printer ownership is... paying to use one.
"I don't get why people keep buying cars. When I need to use one, I just hail an Uber."
I have an oki laser colour printer, quality is on par with any inkjet I've seen except professional photo printers.
If I had to buy a color printer for all the color printing I did during the last decade, it still would have cost me at least 10x more than paying through the nose for each printout - and that's for a cheap printer, never mind maintenance and the quality of the results.
In other words, ownership makes sense only from some level of usage.
The printers they use at print shops are not the same crappy, consumer-grade inkjets that people have in their homes - the quality is much better. And you don't need to deal with a constantly "needy" printer that guzzles ink like it's going out of fashion, and needs cleaned/declogged/realigned every time you look at it.
They might also be wax printers. When I worked (student job) for a medical imaging company, they had their customers use wax printers IIUC. At least that was what they used internally.
Many will give or sell you cheaply a sample pack - it was a revelation to me how good and broad the options were. This includes printing using old fashioned optical photo paper and a machine which is effectively a projecter to expose the image on it - I like this for black and white prints especially.
It is incredibly expensive to operate, especially at low print volumes. If I were printing on it all day, it would probably be fine -- but I end up wasting probably half the ink in startup cycles.
But, when using good papers, it produces the most amazing prints I've ever had.
Now that I've used one, I'd never buy it again unless I had some sort of business that produced more volume -- but until I use up all the supplies I bought, I have the most amazing prints!
And frankly I do the same as the GP. I have a b/w Brother network laser printer and all computers in my home print to this. When we need to print photos once or twice a year we go to a shop and get 100 different photos at once.
If you want to compare this to cars I think it’s more of a “buy a good car that is reliable and works most of the time and rent a bus or get an uber for a special case”. Like these VW Bullis I hear about. They are great when they work but you don’t want to own one.
What a revelation! Cartridges that seem to last forever, it never jams, it doesn't take an eternity to start and stop, it doesn't waste ink on every startup, it doesn't need "realigned" or "unclogged" or "cleaned" 3 times every single time I just want to print something...
I'm never going back to inkjets. I encourage anyone who is still putting up with them to make the switch to a small laser printer.
Across several inkjets over 10+ years, they've all been horrible, and maintenance-heavy - especially when they know you really need to print something!
One of the big points in favor of laser printers has been that they can be idle for a very long time without problems.
We've had a couple different HP inkjet printers, they would clog all the time when not used frequently. Run the cleaning cycle, still doesn't work, clean the nozzles with steam, repeat next month.
We've had a Brother inkjet, and it has been smooth sailing so far.
It frightened the crap out of me once but I'm used to it now.
They can already be, JFYI.
For years I had HP printers (only), when they (particularly their drivers) started to become crap (around 10 years ago) I switched to Brother (small office, 3-4 printers, very little print volume).
Lately, on two different multifunctions, "low cost" but rated for around 10,000-15,000 pages per month (we do like 1/10th of that or less) multifunction B/W laser printers, the fuser (rated for 100,000 pages) failed, on one machine at 18,000 pages, on the other at 46,000, printers are 3 or 4 years old (models DCP-8110DN and MFC-8520DN).
Cost of the spare fuser around 150 Euro! + some 30-50 Euro of labour, total 180-200.
Cost of a comparable brand new printer from Brother around 200-220 Euro.
After some research, I found out that half the world experienced the same on that particular "printing engine", which was used on several Brother models, and new series printer use a different one, with a fuser hopefully more reliable.
Anyway, besides the money involved, the obvious choice, buying two new printers would have meant sending to waste some 15 kg x 2 = 30 kg of material, so searched and found a few videos about the issue, bought for 25 Euro each two "fuser refurbishing kits" from China (roller+sleeve+grease) and in less than two hours time I "fixed" (at least temporarily) the issue (it is too recent to know how long the fusers will last).
Imagine that your car, that you paid some 30,000 Euro and that reasonably could do 200,000 km, at 50,000 and right out of warranty breaks a piston and you can only replace the whole engine block and it is a 28,000 Euro repair.
Taking it to an independent or DIY, you could rebuild the engine (analogous to what you did on your printer).
I am pretty sure that if my fusers went bad within the warranty period I might have had them replaced under warranty, or at least there are several reports that Brother did that.
My rant was only about the absurd prices of the spares.
Here we are talking of 90% to 100% of the price of a new printer.
Timing chain breaks. Out of warranty. Cost from dealer is estimated at $10,000 for a complete engine replacement, plus turbos. No joke.
Takes the vehicle down to net negative value, which can only be declared a complete loss and sold for parts.
NB: Cost estimate from reputable third parties is $7,000-8,000, not a full replacement but only a partial rebuild. Doesn’t materially change the result.
I chose an inkjet for its size. I wanted a printer+scanner combo but the laser ones were enormous. Thankfully I don't have to print a lot so I don't mind the slower printing performance.
Also, this is monochrome.
It is mono, yes. If you want a colour laser, it's going to cost a lot more, and be larger. There weren't too many practical (for me) options when I looked last year.
Personally, I'm really happy with it, as 99% of the time I don't need colour. When I do want to print photos, I use a print shop, which are cheap, can provide a variety of sizes, and produce much higher quality photos than you will get with consumer grade printers.
My old Canon inkjet lasted me about 8 years but eventually died. After that I had a steady stream of $150-ish printers that were unreliable as the build quality had become too cheap.
I too have now a Brother colour laser and it's awesome. So reliable and fast, I no longer have to worry about my kids printing homework etc.
Before that, they’d buy new inkjet printers every year for the same price and ink a couple times a year because some specific color would dry up, and printing black and white wouldn’t work since the printer couldn’t print the mandatory stealth tracking codes. So much time and money wasted buying shitty inkjet printers (which seems to be all of those in the consumer market).
It may be hard to imagine, but different people have different desires. Some people want the ability to print pictures at home.
Some people would also ask why I have an at home gym setup that all in cost a little under $10K when I could go to gym when I want to work out.
Genuinely interested to know your thoughts on the danger of toner particles - either during normal operation or potential leaks/spills in changing cartridges.
We wanted out of the inkjet scam and I initially leaned towards a solid laser printer but then decided I didn't want to worry about toner in the air or potential toner spills.
I got the b&w brother printer (inkjet) that everyone loves and we've been perfectly happy with it...
https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/office-printers-study-made-no...
"This study indicates an area for possible further environmental research. However, currently no health-related conclusions can be drawn from it."
Once, I bought a HP color inkjet multi-function device for AU$30 (new). (That's about US$21.)
As a printer it had lots of problems and soon I gave up even trying to use it as one. Never even bothered buying replacement toner.
But I was happy with it as a flat-bed scanner. And I only paid $30 for it.
Flexibility. If my daughter wants to print something on photo paper for a craft she is doing, I can print right now and she can continue her work instead of having to find time to go to a store and wait. We switched from Laser to Inkjet.
Growing up we always had color inkjets, and while it was cool being able to print stuff in color at home, we always went to the local pharmacy to get pictures printed because the quality was so much better. Looking back, I think it was more expensive to print worse pictures at home anyway.
Black and white is enough for my uses and I have had zero problems with this printer, whereas previous printers always seemed to have a issues (smearing, jams, feed issues, etc). When I need pictures, I upload them to Costco and pick them up the next day.
I have a mix of music I bought from iTunes before Apple Music and Apple Music. If I cancel my subscription, I don’t have access to the subscription music but I keep access to the music I bought - DRM free.
What’s the difference?
So Apple Music seems like a bad comparison. If you stop paying for Apple Music, you lose access to the service that provides the music. In an apples to apples comparison, this would mean that he no longer has access to the service that provides the ink. But that is not what happened. HP reached out and inactivated a physical product that had already been delivered to him.
For an accurate comparison, say you signed up for a subscription of laundry soap through Amazon. Later, upon cancelling your subscription, Amazon not only cancelled your subscription service, but they reached out and (magically) mechanically sealed your last container of laundry soap, even though you had paid for it via the subscription cost.
This isn't the same as passively turning off a service. This is actively breaking something that someone already paid for.
Am I missing something?
To take your laundry soap example: You haven't subscribed to laundry soap, you've subscribed to a "2 washes per week" service, as part of which Amazon supplies you the soap you need for those washes. If you stop paying for that, you can't use the supplied material for more washes.
This is the marketing page for Instant Ink. It seems pretty clear to me:
He could have chosen the old way and buying the cartridges himself on a regular basis, but he chose the subscription model and now he wines about it.
What you need to understand about the subscription model is that you DON'T own the cartridge and you DON'T pay for the cartridge. You pay for printed pages. If the ink runs out, the printer automatically orders a set of new ones, for no additional cost. You receive a package to your preferred postal address, that contains the new ink and a sealable, labeled, post-stamped bag in which you will put the old ones and send it back to HP.
I absolutely love this model. I pay the minimal 2USD for it (if I exceed the monthly printable 50 pages, I get another 10p/$1, or upgrade my subscription. Unused quota accumulates up to 100p), and I get a monthly email about the detailed pricing.
Also, this way the used cartridges (dangerous waste) are handled properly and an environmentally friendly way.
These days, a duplex, 600 dpi color laser is < $200 (though the first hit is a Canon that is not postscript, smb, or lpr compatible, so watch your wallet...)
My last N inkjets died due to dried up heads (a Brother all in one scanner printer dried out and ruined the permanent heads in a month or two, on the starter cartridge!) or removal of windows driver support (It was an HP; Linux still worked fine...).
Sadly, Samsung sold their printer business to HP. The model I have costs more used than I paid for it new. :-(
Generic toner cartridges are $15, and last months to years for me. The printer still has a “Department of Defense” inventory sticker on it.
Also amazing that people will get angry that a company would dare offer a product that doesn’t exactly conform to their own ideological bent.
You are right, the model is great for some people in some cases. However, its a model where companies use software to lock you out of being able to use your hardware. This is becoming extremely widespread. Consider also the farmers having to deal with the John Deere tractor licenses and being unable to maintain their own equipment (or Apple preventing you from being able to upgrade or repair your macs/iphones).
The problem is that as the practice scales, people end up with no real property rights, and are just ensnared in a hundred terms of service agreements that they literally cannot escape while living a normal life.
Lots of potentially dangerous things are harmless or even pleasant on a small scale.
If you are occasionally forced to send in a paper form or your flight carrier insists on a printed boarding pass etc. it doesn't make economic sense to keep a printer functional at normal cost.
I see HP free tier as a legacy support system.
Ideally I'd print nothing. It's maddening how much bureaucracy still requires printing.
But I agree that on devices that you depend on it is weird.
I live in Amsterdam and have a subscription bike (and I pay for the fact that I will always have a replacement bike if any issues come up)... but I guess I wouldn't like a situation where I couldn't buy (and repair) a regular bike.
I do write the address on envelopes by hand, which I would use a printer for if I'd own one.
- Some of my forms for UK electoral registration.
- For 30% ruling the firm doing my application sent a form to print band return
- I set up a sole trader company and had to print and bring form to my setup meeting.
There were a few others too. The NL itself is generally good for digital services though. I only need to print a few things a year. Nothing frequent.
I have high hopes for a technology like that though. Natural contrast ratio as brightness increases is a wonderful thing.
Phones have got ridiculously bright backlights to solve this, and still sunglasses and a sunny day completely ruin the experience.
Here I can print a piece of paper with an address and 2D bar code on it (which is the postage), tape the label to a box, and leave it where the mailman can find it (usually on my front porch), drop it in the outgoing mail at work, or hand it to any mailman I see. No visiting a post office to mail things.
If you can plan ahead a little, you don't ever need to actually have a printer on hand.
However, if you print frequently, a B&W laser printer is probably a worthwhile investment. I bought one when my wife needed to do immigration paper work and it has been great. We still use it quite frequently to print out coloring sheets or whatever for my kids, as well as for sending in the occasional form. I haven't needed to buy a new toner cartridge, and I have printed around 1000 pages and it still prints as clearly as the day I bought it. I think we've spent about the same as printing at our library, but from the convenience of our home, and I've used the scanner function several times, as well as the bulk copy feature (insert stack of paper and it copies them all).
If you only print occasionally (1-2x/year), check out your local library or office supply store. If you print more frequently, a laser printer is most likely what you want, especially if you only need black and white. If you print a lot of color, maybe getting a color inkjet is worthwhile if you like the look of ink over toner. Most people shouldn't own an inkjet printer.
However, in this case, I like the idea that if tomorrow I wanted to print with Epson, I can sell / abandon this given HP printer and my future printing needs won't depend on my relationship with HP now. (OTOH, I am using HP printer/scanners for 10y now and this is the only brand I am satisfied with, especially for their Linux support).
> the model is great for some people in some cases. I know that my needs might be not the same as others'. For me the model immediately clicked because of my preferences (environmental friendliness, automated ink orders - this one is super convenient since I travel a lot and in the past the ink ran out EXACTLY when I needed on that only weekend when I was finally at home, etc.)
Anyhow, to me this only tells that this dude should probably rethink his finances if he has no idea what subscriptions he has. After that, maybe he should be aware what terms and conditions he accepted, instead of making a fool of himself on twitter.
Also, sometimes the lengthy T&C is a trick to make you buy a shitty service with a lot of hidden fees. Now if you check out their webpage[1], it's crystal clear what it is about, and what are their prices.
People in the industry it "Product as a Service": you buy a widget, but you don't own it, and have to keep paying the seller for the right to use it.
Just google: instantInk and scam
This is not a sarcasm, I'm just trying to adapt myself to this brand new world and not to cringe when hearing words like this from myself or anyone else.
It does no such thing. He could send the subscription ink cartridge back and buy a regular cartridge for his printer.
To be clear: Anyone using HP Instant Ink (II) can cancel II and buy a non-II cartridge and be on their merry way. As noted in other parts of this post: The only thing OP was blocked from doing was using an II cartridge after he stopped paying for the II service.
Disclaimer: I do agree the tractor licensing situation is not good, but it's also not the same as this situation.
People seem to be missing this part. It's like returning a rental car.
You are technically obliged to return the cartridges contractually I believe. The fact that they don't pursue you if you don't is at least a small positive.
I can see why some think it's a dark pattern, but it's usual in a rental type scenario to return the thing that was on loan to you
Nowadays, you seem not to even "own" the printer nor the cartridges. Everything becomes a service where you should be in the loop continuously paying for it. And we are consciously supporting such economy.
This model is there for a very long time, and makes our lives much easier. And if it doesn't lock you in, is offered for quite cheap (we are talking about $3-5 per month, or even the free tier) I don't see the problem with it. As long as you have the freedom of choice (to switch vendors, or do it yourself), I don't see the problem.
And as a result of all this it's heavily regulated unlike printer ink.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1GWHfg2P5Y
HP has a subscription printer, there's no printer apocalypse.
Needless to say, most of us employees (who were students at the same university) had everything printed. Textbooks, assignments, posters. Thousands upon thousands of pages got printed on those Saturdays, some days you'd swear it just went continuously from the minute we opened to well after we closed. With my family having owned nothing but lasers, I was incredibly impressed by it. Being able to refill the tanks while the printer was going was just incredible, leading to zero downtime or the suffering quality you start to see when cartridges run low.
For the low volume of printing I personally do, I'll stick to laser, but for those who do a lot of colour printing and want the high-quality inkjet offers, I'd go as far to say there's no competiton.
The best printer-related job for Shaq would seem to be crushing them in his giant hands. Can you picture him wearing bi-focals, trying to type on a standard keyboard with those frying pans?
some printers now use an "ink pad": "Caution: Power Cleaning may cause the ink pads to reach their capacity sooner. When an ink pad reaches the end of its service life, the product stops printing and you must contact Epson for support."
A year later she reports everything working out just how she wanted and no regrets. She's on one of the middle tiers so it's not an inconsiderable amount of money but she prints quite a lot of stuff, she does craft projects with local kids in various organisations and does dress making, these days mostly for dolls because we (her kids) grew up - and it all ends up using paper patterns. She enjoys the small puzzle of managing the page budget to avoid excess fees, and she very much likes never finding that it's low on ink unexpectedly without a spare cartridge ready to go because of course HP ensures that frustration won't happen.
You don't need a subscription model for this. At least for laser printers, HP allows you to mail back your used cartridges to them, free of charge to you.
Edit: stop downvoting me, I am a printing industry expert
Your comment extolling the virtues of subscription locked rental ink has me here.
>pay the minimal 2USD for it (if I exceed the monthly printable 50 pages, I get another 10p/$1, or upgrade my subscription. Unused quota accumulates up to 100p), and I get a monthly email about the detailed pricing.
This model doesn't make sense to me. Why are you paying by the page and not by the amount of ink actually used?
That's like paying for internet by the number of webpages you visit as opposed to the bandwidth you use.
The ink is the product you are using. Unless they're supplying the paper too? It makes sense to charge by the page in a place like Staples or something, but as a subscription for a home printer it seems ridiculous to pay by the page.
You can think of the ink as an implementation detail. With this model you're paying for a capability that happens to be priced on a per-page basis. That's simpler/more understandable for most people than pricing by, say, ink volume.
Yes, this can seem very strange, and it won't make sense for everybody.
Mostly, people aren't printing full coverage (unless it's photos), because it makes the paper soggy.
Postage is probably a bigger cost than ink for HP here; especially for lower volume users who need new cartridges based on time rather than volume.
If your subscribers don’t understand that to which they are subscribed, that seems like a problem to me.
I can understand if you forgot all of this I guess, but it seems hard to forget to me, when it’s such a unique setup flow to a printer and they warn multiple times.
Edit: oh no, it seems that OP actually got shafted by a change to this experience... bummer.
"Whines! Whines!" NOT "wines"!
Whine - intransitive verb. (1)To produce a sustained, high-pitched, plaintive sound, as in pain, fear, or complaint. (2)To complain or protest in a childish or annoying fashion.
To _wine_ is to drink wine!
I am whining in sense (1), although you are not here to witness my anguish at your language. I might be whining in sense (2) in this post, b/c I am fairly certain that no one but myself cares.
Otherwise, nice note on the good points of the subscription model for print cartridges.
I had 2 "low-end" HP printers that would die after 2 years (warranty period). The way they would die is very interesting: The printer would receive the document to print, pull in paper, start priting but not pull the paper so everything would get printed on one line. Then, when it is done printing, it would move the paper properly, in steps, without printing anything, until it's "done", when it would eject the paper. That is a software problem, because 1. it can pull the paper precisely, and 2. it can print. It just desynchronizes the pulling of paper with the printing.
After that, I got another HP printer that was 3 times the price, which works right now, but it's absolutely trash quality. It cost 100€, and I'm comparing it's color print quality to a color laser printer at work, from Konica Minolta, which is actually 5 times the price, the but the quality, speed of printing, reliability and cost of maintenance (and the fact it's been printing hundreds of pages per day for 5 years without duying yet).
InkJet printers are awful in quality, cost more to own, require regular maintenance, break or pause in critical moments ("Please wait while the printer performs head alingment", "The printer is priting a test page. When done, please scan the page and click OK to continue. ", "The printer is cleaning the head surface. Please wait. This may use up a large amount of ink. ") and slower than laser printers.
This is not mentioning the fact that print quality in black is atrocious on cheaper InkJets, which specify a huge resolution but in reality the dots are misaligned and fuzzy.
Basically, awful devices. Printers in general are awful devices, but consumer InkJets are a whole different level.
Edit: I just checked, Konica Minolta in Belgrade (Serbia), represented by Konica Minolta Business Solutions Europe GmbH, literally only does "Industrial InkJet printers" now, and has subscription models for whole printers, where a company pays a monthly subscription for a printer, and has that printer maintained on-premise, replaced with no downtime, refilled and has some level of additional support. I'm not sure that's what my workplace uses.
But yes, if you don't need them now professional printing is quite cheap and you need to invest quite a bit to get the same quality at home.
This is exactly my usage pattern for printers, and why I switched to a laser printer.
Across about 3 years so far.
But HP spy on me via my printer.
By default I trust people's good faith but this time I'm really wondering whether he was really surprised, or if he knew what he was doing but feigned it for Internet fame.
I have an HP printer, I use Instant Ink because I chose to. By default it just works like a regular printer, you buy cartridges and there is no subscription to pay.
One technical advantage HP has over Brother is the printer head is integrated into the cartridge. I previously owned an expensive Brother office inkjet printer and the printer head got into a bad state where no matter how many times I cleaned the head or replaced ink I had streaks. Another issue with Brother is it would not let me print black and white if I did not have color ink installed (HP does).
Compared with the Epson EcoTank is there is an unused ink reservoir (called an ink pad) that will collect ink during cleaning cycles and other operations. Once this reservoir is full the printer has reached end of life (and Epson does not recommend servicing it). The EcoTank is really expensive as well.
My biggest concern is privacy / security. In theory HP - or someone else? - can now see anything I print/scan/copy. I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with the idea.
Page limits are defined by the tier you are on.
It would not make sense to allow the user to continue using them out of, because their retail price is generally above the subscription costs, so it would otherwise allow people to keep subscribing and cancelling.
https://instantink.hpconnected.com/
https://support.hp.com/nz-en/document/c03767640
They seem to brick your cartridge to prevent the plan being cancelled just after they send you a cartridge, which could be done on the free tier. I don't like it in theory but it makes sense they would disable it.
https://kb.netgear.com/000061528/GS108Tv3-GS110TPv3-GS110TPP...
Home printers don't make sense to me on cost, time & scale.
Then again not all employers are cool with incidental personal use.
Think you're misunderstanding OP. This applies even to keycard/pin printers.
Basically all those big fat enterprise printers have harddrives in them that capture prints. Really don't get why, but apparently that's a fairly universal thing in enterprise printers. As best as I can tell even IT dept isn't always aware of this so a lot of them get sold/disposed with that hdd in it....
The end result is the same, it's all logged and stored.
I cannot fathom any reason outside of art / photos why you would want to print a document when you can view it on just about every device available to you. When was the last time you were in a room without a screen? A room where nobody had a smartphone, tablet, laptop, or TV? Do you view Word documents in the shower?
It seems like from a financial and environmental perspective, printing out forms is exceedingly wasteful.
2) sending letters
3) handing in forms to government services etc
4) paper is a lot more practical to just stick somewhere/hand around for whoever to use, e.g. checklists
5) making signs/labels for stuff
6) handing in homework
I've intended to have a black laser and get colour printing at the store, but am waiting for the printer to die.
- hp (or Apple) can sign you up for this, but then they cannot call it "buy" in the shop. Rent an iPhone (Android phone) or install a printer may be what it should be.
- they need to inform you about the price. In EU a shop cannot write prices without VAT. Install for X EUR + Y EUR per month is what should be on the sticker.
- finally, there is the antitrust. If somebody tries to replace Y with ads, this must be legally part of the price. Higher price for consumers is what makes a good reason to split a monopoly.
I'm a buy-with-cash kind of guy, but the above isn't rental and shouldn't be described as such. It's a payment plan with some incentives designed to keep iPhone sales up.