Show HN: Pinball Map – user-updated map of public pinball machines | Hacker News Reader

Show HN: Pinball Map – user-updated map of public pinball machines

pinballmap.com

203 pointsryantgtg85 comments

HN suggested I repost this, since last time it didn’t get much attention (cool feature!).

Here is the description I wrote last time:

Hi, Pinball Map is a hobby project we've been doing in our spare time for the past 10 years. It's currently listing 7,291 locations and 24,918 machines. Code is on github[1][2], and we have an API that is used by various folks.

Web Stack = ruby on rails, heroku, tile server on aws. App = React Native (launched the redeveloped app last June).

We took a relatively slow-growth approach for the first 9 years: we added "regions" one at a time for places where people demonstrated a strong desire to update the data, and a volunteeer administrator could oversee it (in fact, we originally intended for this to just be a map of pinball machines in Portland, Oregon, but people kept asking us to expand to their areas). This gave us a pretty strong userbase and a reputation for having clean, up-to-date data. Each regional map was a distinct, silo'd map. Lately we've de-emphasized this model in favor of a single map that covers the whole world.

For the first 7 years, all map updates were made anonymously. But after two instances of abuse, we implemented a user system. We now have about 9,000 registered users. The map gets around 3,000-5,000 edits per month, including 100-200 new locations.

Search experience on the web could use some updating. The app is where it's at right now. We spent the past 14 months on its design/development, and we think it came out well. Throughout the 10 years, the majority of our users use the app rather than the website (but we don't have great analytics).

We have no ads, no analytics aside from the free new relic stuff that comes with heroku, and no business model.

[1] https://github.com/scottwainstock/pbm/ [2] https://github.com/bpoore/pbm-react

hey, I love seeing the code on Github, but could you clarify the licensing? Your website says it's open source, but I don't see licenses in either of the repositories linked here. (May I recommend the AGPL? :D )

Good point. We’ll figure that out.

Sup! Let's hang out again sometime.

Edit: oh I thought you were Scott. We haven't met yet I think.

The website seems very North America centric. So much so that I thought it was North America only. Elsewhere ITT you mentioned Japan though.

Have you considered making the site more global friendly? Also, on mobile at least when I go to look at the map I expected to be able to see all machines in the whole world but instead it only tells me there are no machines within 50 miles of me and won’t show me any machines at all.

The brief history of the site is that for the first 8 years or so it contained many separate maps, each for a distinct region. These regions were comprised of places where people had contacted us and said they wanted a map, and that they would manage the data for. It just happens that almost all of those regions were in North America.

So, we let the users decide what the map would show.

Additionally, we had a pact with findapinball.com that we’d stay out of Europe. We recently backed out of that because we merged all the regions together and wanted to allow people to submit locations anywhere.

We don’t really have the resources to load data for the whole world. But the code is available, and if you want to figure out a way to cluster data at that scale...!

Also, I agree that the website search experience needs improvement. Try the mobile app! We recently redesigned it, and it’s easier to browse the world.

I see, and I will try your mobile app then :)

Maybe my non-native English showing, but I expected the location field to take e.g. a city name (and otherwise be named "venue"?)

For the search term I put in it found some results in the US and some in Europe, and thus centered the map over the atlantic, without zooming out far enough to see any land or the markers

We tried to solve this by putting some placeholder text in each field:

Machine (Iron Maiden)

Near (Manhattan)

Location (John's Bar)

So, "Near" is the geography and "Location" takes a business name.

We'll tweak it. Thanks for your feedback.

For me, "Location" shows "Wedgehead", which I parse as a town/village name. This "naming things" topic is surprisingly tricky it turns out...

Oh yes, it says "Wedgehead" right now. That's the name of a real location. Sometimes we cycle out that placeholder to say a different name of a cool new venue.

FYI: Wedgehead is a venue in Portland, Oregon. The business's name is a reference to a specific style of electro-mechanical pinball machine that was around in the '60s and '70s. The shape of the backbox was sort of a wedge. Wedgeheads were always (as far as I know) single player machines, and were generally made by Gottlieb and Chicago Coin. See the machine that is second to the right here: https://i1.pinside.com/5/c2/5c2420372fb8beda178cbbef6e605a0b...

Anyway, we're changing "Location" to say "Venue", and will push the change soon. It is a wise suggestion!

I love the app/website and one thing I'd love to have a history of the machine changes and comments. is that something that's feasible?

Yes, we’re working on a location history that shows which machines have been added/removed from a place. https://github.com/scottwainstock/pbm/issues/1223

A few people have requested this recently. Thanks!

We don’t want to include comments in that history. I don’t think that would add much. We already show a comment history for each machine (which goes away once that machine is removed).

Someone just anonymously noted that we need to credit OSM contributors (so I can’t respond to them, but will respond here). We do credit OSM contributors. When you load the map, the standard credit is present.

Let me know if more needs to be done to fulfill this requirement.

Uhh, I just loaded the map and couldn't find this credit?

There's a "(c)OpenMapTiles" on higher zoom levels over the map. I assume this is what they meant?

That's not what I was referring to. I was looking on mobile (browser) when I responded, and there's a little "(i)" in the lower right that you click on and it says "OpenStreetMap Contributors".

But I'm not seeing it on desktop. We'll fix this! It might just be hidden behind another div.

OpenMapTiles packages the vector tiles, which we are hosting on our own. Usually attribution shows up automatically...

Ok, this is resolved now :)

Cool project!

I never loved pinball growing up, but I played my fair share as I cruised around the arcade. I think I appreciate it more now as I’ve gotten older.

There is something very satisfying about playing an ‘analog’ game, in a world where digital video games and the internet dominate our attention.

Good to see the pinball community is alive and well, and people are actively contributing. Keep up the good work!

Love it! Feature idea: Add links from the machines to the Internet Pinball Machine Database: https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl

Here's Eight Ball Deluxe's entry, for example: https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=eight+ball+delux&search=S...

We’ve had that feature for like 9 years! Click on any machine name in the location details.

I suppose we could make it more obvious!

Oh, I see them now. When I couldn't click the machine names in either the pop-up box on the map or the top-level of the location panel, I gave up too soon. I needed to click on the location to expand the details first, gotcha. I see there are also links to Pintips there (example: https://pintips.net/games/41). Cool!

Thanks for building and making this available.

Yeah, that first list is just kind of a quick overview of the location, and then you get more detail when you click into it (as you found).

We worked with Andreas, the Pintips developer, on developing the Open Pinball Database (https://opdb.org/). The games on pintips and on pinball map both share an OPDB ID. On his other app - https://matchplay.events/ - you can automatically populate your tournament with the machines listed at that location on pinball map.

Love it! I always wanted to make this, but for public basketball courts.

Love this app. Has helped me track down TAF pinball. Great work!

That’s the first one I searched for, too!

TAF = Addams Family? If so, what’s interesting about it?

(I see Galloping Ghost has it, so I assume it’s somehow great.)

Wikipedia says it's the best selling pinball game of all time. Learn something new every day...

The game is fun for a few reasons.

First, there are two really viable strategies for playing it which are equally fun. Bashing the bookcase will get to the multiball and hearing Gomez shout “It’s SHOWTIME!” is super satisfying.

If the multiball strat isn’t for you, then working your way through the “room” of the mansion are just as rewarding. Completing all the rooms starts a mode where every mode just plays one after the other. Super satisfying, if you can get it.

Second, the callouts, art, and design are fun and full of character. Having thing grab the ball and pull it into his box is a particularly nice touch.

Finally, the layout of the table allows for some nice “flow” where you can transition between shots nicely.

Very nice!

I thought that I knew of all of the public pinball machines in my area. Not only are all of the ones I know of (around 200 of them) listed, but there are several more that I didn't know about. Excellent work!

Thank you! Some areas are definitely more up to date than others. But overall, we've tried hard to build a strong userbase, and we're happy that people are so into updating it.

This is a cool service, and has surprisingly good coverage of Helsinki. Couple of places are missing though – I need to check what machines they currently have, and submit them!

Great to see some pinheads around HN.

If you want to watch some pinball, remember https://pinballvideos.com

This is awesome! I want more in Europe as I love Pinball! I'll add the one I know tomorrow (especially there is a nice pinball museum in Rotterdam, NL)

For the maps feature I'll be happy to discuss with you using https://dokomaps.com we're making a platform for anyone to create communities of place sharing!

Finally! Now if I could actually figure out how to play pinball well...

Any resources for a beginner or tips on learning how to improve?

Generally, flipper skills are a good place to start. The PAPA website has a nice guide: https://papa.org/learning-center/players-guide/#152269588216...

It’s also a good idea to pick one machine and learn its rules. The PAPA YouTube channel has guides for most classic games (Addams Family, Twilight Zone, etc)

Thanks! Appreciate the links

I've been searching for something like this for Dance Dance Revolution. The only thing I've found was old forums that are now outdated.

I was visiting NYC and searched for any DDR machines left. The last one was in ESPN Zone but that too closed down.

The last one I found was in a random arcade near a ski village in the Italian Alps.

https://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/arcades.php

This site is very consistent for Pump it Up machines, might work well for you too.

so cool .. i can verify all the ones in my city , i was in one of the places last night and my buddy owns one of the other ones.

city of 75,000+ and we have 3 public pinball machines.

I grew up in Santa Barbara, CA, and it was the same deal.

> city of 75,000+ and we have 3 public pinball machines.

That makes me sad. Perhaps there's a business opportunity, though? There are almost 300 pinball machines in my (admittedly more populated) area, and 150 of them are in a single establishment that combines a pinball arcade (that runs on nickels) with a bar (that does not run on nickels). It's been doing great business for 10 years or so now.

Your app has literally just given me plans for the evening. Awesome stuff!

Is there anyone else like the pinball hall of fame in Las Vegas NV?

Museum of Pinball in Beaumont CA comes to mind, it only opens 3 times a year, however.

The Pacific Pinball Museum in Alameda is open daily as far as I know.

> The Pacific Pinball Museum in Alameda is open daily as far as I know.

It is sometimes closed for private parties (highly recommended), so you should double check the website before you go.

Top 20 sorted by number of machines. https://gist.github.com/RyanTG/11b4f4442c6efc4cc58ca8eaaa8c5...

Big places like this can be extra-tough to keep up to date, because it's takes more work to crosscheck between the map and what's actually there. Some of these locations are actively kept up to date by the owners/operators. That's the way to go, because they know what's coming in and out.

Also, the Krakow Pinball Museum was just submitted today. Haven't added it yet, but it has a lot of machines.

Neat. You're aware the Museum of Pinball (museumofpinball.org) in Beaumont CA has 500 or so machines? Not sure if it counts since its only open 3 weekends a year.

I live within driving range and have been there dozens of times...

I am aware. I live in LA, so it’s pretty close to me, too. But yeah, it doesn’t quite seem to count as public since it’s just a special events venue, open only a couple days a year. I could be swayed otherwise, though, given that we’re not 100% consistent when it comes to this.

Also, it be tough to keep that location up to date on the map!

For now, we have a link here: https://pinballmap.com/la/about

San Francisco has several places with 10+ pinball machines including Free Gold Watch in the Haight currently hosting 55 pinball machines!

https://pinballmap.com/bayarea?utf8=%E2%9C%93&region=bayarea...

The Silverball Museum in Asbury Park NJ has 111 machines, many of which are old.

Cool project, may also public virtual pinballs added to list too.

Talking about this, do you know any table under free license that could be ported to gnu/linux pinball emilia.

Here is a template project if anyone is interested:

https://github.com/rzr/pinball-table-hurd

Thanks and sorry for noise if it's not relevant but I assumed that pinball lovers and developers would like also to play home.

This is awesome! Reminds me a lot of the Zenus -I- vanisher [0] arcade cabinet locator. Similar to this but its more focused on Japanese import games.

The site looks quite dated now and doesn't have any geo location support. It would be awesome if somebody could give this a refresh in the same vein as your project.

[0] https://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/arcades.php

I love PinballMap.com. I am a Patreon donator as I felt their service deserved my support.

I wonder if OSM has clean extension points for adding this sort of specialized metadata. Might be a nice way to create these kind of specialized geo-databases without having to do as much of your own implementation and hosting.

Love the concept, when I put in Detroit and clicked on the red indicator it listed one machine here and then the next entry was 2 hours away, maybe the threshold what what is considered close enough to the search location is too lenient?

I think the data is just sparse for either reality reasons or lack of users, but sadly probably lack of machines.

Try https://pinballmap.com/detroit

I’m not sure why so few locations were found in your initial search. I see 13 places of I search here https://pinballmap.com/map?utf8=&address=Detroit

There’s also a “redo search results when map moves” button. It defaults if disabled, so you gotta check it on. We’re going to make it enabled by default, since I think that’s what users expect.

Also, the mobile app provides a better search/browse experience.

Mine was New Mexico ;)

NM is indeed pretty sparse. We list 20 places with pinball. 11 are in Albuquerque.

Sister bar is da best :)

I want the same for pianos :)

We like to try and think of other maps that we could adapt the code for. I don't think we would have ever come up with publicly-accessible pianos!

Businesses/pubs/clubs where people actually seem to socialize.

Please think of the unintended consequences. There's even an ancient saying about them: "whom the gods want to punish, they grant [his/her] wishes".

I discovered a pub where people actually socialise. This being the internet, I'm not willing to say which one and where. The last thing it needs is getting flooded with more seekers than it can handle, and in the process losing its charm as the locals would be drowned out, eventually taking themselves elsewhere.

For those who think I'm being unnecessarily over-protective or snarky, I can only recommend to read this link: https://petapixel.com/2019/07/22/photographers-instagrammers... (as happens, it was on HN about 6 months ago).

"Nobody goes there anymore -- it's too popular!" Yogi Berra

Named after an In Flames song? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCvq8VN9owY

Ha, no they named the song after us! Just kidding.

I have a google alert for the phrase, and have to -“in flames” or else I’ll get flooded with In Flames stories.

Any chance you could enable search for countries such as Germany? I.e. searching for "Hannover, Germany" (a city with 500k people) just shows the whole globe without machines.

Zooming in on Germany on the map on the main page, it doesn't show any machines (or pins on the map, rather)?

This might be a weakness in how we’re using the geocoder. If you search Berlin in the Near field on https://pinballmap.com/map you get results. You can also zoom in and check on the “redo results when map is moved button”. Or use the app. It’s easier to browse on the app.

Searched "Bangkok" -> got some specific place called "Bangkok Lounge"

Searched "Bangkok, Thailand" -> 0 results

In Asia, most of our listings are in Japan. That's because we have a dedicated administrator there who is eager to document all the machines. Outside of Japan, there are only a couple locations.

This is awesome!

It already has a bunch of my Toronto favourites and others I'd never heard of!

How long has this been running?

Around 11 years. Sorry, HN suggested I “repost” this Show HN. I should also repost the description I wrote!

No apology needed! It’s great! Glad you did repost it!

Awesome!

I have used this before, pretty great stuff!

The map does not allow me to browse, it requires search. That is not ideal, as per me.

I tried to search thinking, "No, there is no way there is anything here in Sweden". But yes, just a few kilometers from my house there is a new arcade where private people put up their flipper games. Members only but anyone can become member. There was also an old one I had forgotten about.

You can scroll around once you have found one location, the map only updates if you click the checkbox on the left on higher zoom-levels.

Mabe one solution for this, without putting too much demand on the server would be to cluster the map points and deliver just the coordinates of the clusters until you hit zoom level 12 or so?

We hope to do some clustering like that in the future.

We're also going to turn on that "redo" checkbox by default (except still disable when zoomed out too far).

> Members only but anyone can become member.

We only list publicly-accessible locations, but "public" can be very very tricky to define. This place seems to count because anyone can become a member (so it's basically equivalent to paying an entrance fee). There are also some members-only places that open up to the public once a month. I consider those to be barely public.

Anyone know if the data for this comes from or is published to OpenStreetMap?

It doesn't and isn't. All the location and machine data is generated by users on this site.

We use OSM vector tiles for the map.

Would be interesting to add the data to the OSM database somehow.

For one, that would require regular syncing. The map is updated frequently, so snapshots get out of date quickly.

There have been 143,478 map edits in the last 3 years.

It seems that OSM has ways to do syncing with external databases, it looks like the best option here would be to use Osmsync.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmsync https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GO-Sync https://github.com/CUTR-at-USF/gtfs-osm-sync

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