AirPods Pro owners complain of worse noise cancellation after firmware updates | Hacker News Reader

AirPods Pro owners complain of worse noise cancellation after firmware updates

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223 pointsBorlands156 comments

Anecdote:

Before the firmware update, they were a bit pressure-heavy and would create the "stuffed ears" feeling that I'm familiar with from Bose nausea-inducing headphones.

A little while ago, they stopped doing that, which was really nice, but I didn't quite notice and they continue to cancel noise to the degree they always did.

EDIT2: I noticed a couple weeks ago that noise was leaking into my AirPods, so I re-did the ear fit test and this time it said they weren’t a good fit. I went one size up and now it said they were, and honestly now it’s better than it was on old firmware when I first got them. I bet that’s about when the firmware update happened! Maybe the noise canceling changed slightly because the tip fit algorithm changed slightly.

EDIT: "Stuffed ears" notes for a bunch, since I guess I'm "lucky" to be sensitive to this:

AirPods Pro: minimal but present until it was gone w/ update

Beats Studio Pro 3: not present since purchase ~2-3 years ago

Bose QC15: not present since purchase 10-15 years ago

Bose modern (past five years): significant presence, did not have a chance to test differing levels of cancellation

I've definitely noticed a difference, in that I can hear the hum of my desktop computer, where it was almost completely inaudible previously. Perhaps Apple could introduce tuning/options so folks can set their desired level of noise-cancellation?

Take a recording of the hum of your desktop computer by setting an iPhone next to (ideally, on a towel or pillow) your computer and using Audio Memo to capture a clean recording of the hum.

Then open an AppleCare support case and indicate that your AirPods stopped noise canceling a certain hum in your house a few weeks/months ago, and that you'd captured a recording of that hum with an iPhone and would like Apple to evaluate whether your AirPods are defective or the hum is by design found not to be addressed by their noise canceling.

At the very least, they'll probably let you provide them the recording (Support has a way to capture files electronically), and at best, they'll either execute a capture/swap of your AirPods for testing or tell you that this is within expected tolerances but thank you for the recording in case it helps them improve in the future.

Is this not also maybe some weirdness with ANC? I have a solid pair of active noise cancelling cans (they're a hybrid in-ear/over the head setup) and they they're definitely inconsistent in what they filter out.

At home I could whistle and click my fingers and it would all be filtered, I was completely separated from body and mind as far as hearing went. As soon as I got on the tube, things started leaking through.

(I don't want to advertise, I just bought these cans on a trial/subscription basis, so I could feel them out for a month or so in the wild with minimal risk.)

Also! Test your ear tip fit again, in case they changed the algorithm. I recently had to change ear tips and maybe that’s why. They’re so much better now than they were before the update, too.

This is a good opportunity to recommend Sennheiser PXC 550. They allow you to customize noise cancellation to your liking. There are other good things about them, and after trying Bose QC35 and PXC 550 for about a week, it wasn't a difficult decision to make. I've had them for >2 years now.

I think I’d take that trade off. Bose headphones give me nausea as you describe and I always end up taking them off.

I have the same problem with Bose. I love the headphones but I always need to put on music.

Just using them to reduce noise and focus isn't possible because it makes me nauseous.

Have you tried a white noise app instead? I play "heavy rain pouring + thunder" and it's amazing for focus.

Personally, I prefer Rap :)

With both AirPods Pro and Beats Studio Pro, if I leave them unpaired to anything and with noise cancellation active, I forget that I have them on because it's so noninvasive and occasionally knock them off my head by accident.

Why not get a pair of passive ear protectors if you only want to reduce noise? They cost about a tenth of what a pair of Bose headphones cost.

Can’t speak for OP, but noise canceling headphones are good for low-frequency noise, while passive hearing protection is better for high-frequency. For that reason I use headphones while bicycling — it blocks the loud engine noise and lets me better hear localizable sounds like tire swish.

Have you ever put your ear next to an inflated balloon? Gives the same stuffed ear effect for me.

This fact makes me suspicious that it might be an instance of comb filtering going on, which is often caused by the interference of a signal being summed with itself with a small delay. It is subtle and may cause the sensation described above, but I'm not really sure.

It's probably related but there seems to be a much wider bandwidth attenuation than you would expect with a typical comb filter phenomenon against a hard surface.

It's possible that the round surface is partly responsible for the width of the effect but it's pretty unique in my experience to inflated rubber balloons.

Oh wow you're right, the "stuffed ears" feeling is gone! This is great! I've been using transparency mode for a while so I didn't even notice.

This feeling makes my Bose unusuable unless I'm listening to music. They always default to noise-canceled enabled when you turn them on. So every time you turn them on, you have to disable noise-cancelling in the app.

I ordered some AirPods Pro, so hopefully that feeling doesn't exist while using the noise-canceling. At least you can disable the noise-canceling without opening an app.

That “stuffed ears” feeling took me about a week to get used to. Now it’s no longer an issue. Everyone is different though I suppose.

I had the same experience. I was considering returning them but gave it a week of usage and I seemed to adapt.

If you have the 35s you can rebind the side button to change the level of noise cancellation. It will still default to full but you can switch it to half (which gets rid of the pressure imo) or off by pushing the button once/twice.

Thanks for the tip!

While I don’t suffer the pressure problem in any modern products (though I did in much older products) I still regularly use the QC35 half mode because

— It’s not affected by wind noise, whereas the full mode is. So it’s great when walking outside.

— It’s also less affected by rubbing and scuffing against the external microphone, so I use it when trying to rest on flights.

— And sometimes I prefer having that little bit more ambient sound, like when walking in a shopping centre. Too much noise cancellation can result in too little awareness of surroundings.

Ah ha! I was wondering why the fit check app started to tell me I needed to change my ear tips. Sadly, I'm already on the big size ones. I've summoned memory foam tips from Aliexpress. crosses fingers

There are memory foam tips??? Link?

Search aliexpress for airpod pro memory foam.

As yet, I haven't tried them.

They're also available on Amazon for about 10x the price.

I don't know about you and your experience, but I used to have an issue with that "stuffed ears" feeling you're talking about; but I got used to it and I no longer even notice it.

It may be the same for you, if you also have the same issue with high-grade passive earmuffs. Most people who try on my 3M Peltor X5A muffs report a similar "stuffed ears" feeling.

Anyway, hope this is something you can overcome, because the far side of overcoming it for me was really great!

While I appreciate your optimistic assumption that “it’s something I can overcome” if I just grin and bear it, it’s been fifteen years and shows no sign of fading, so I’m not really holding my breath at this point. Clearly your perceptual system was able to do so using exposure therapy, but that isn’t at all universal.

The best explanation of the “pressure” sensation I’ve read: https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardru...

I like this explanation. The empirical reports have put me off because I know that there is no significant static pressure difference with ANC.

If you don’t experience it, you can rest safely knowing that most ANC will be fine for you :) Drop by an electronics store and test a Bose QC35 to verify, it’ll either be super obvious or not.

Sorry, by “put off” I meant the empirical reports not aligning with any physical explanation has annoyed me. I like to use ANC.

One thing I've been thinking that he didn't touch on, is that in-ears are 1) smaller 2) closer to the eardrum.

There are fewer paths the sound can take, so it should be possible send signals that are more precisely out-of-phase.

Another thing I've been thinking about is that the brain uses phase information of sounds to localize sounds. So if ANC changes leaves a small residual signal with a messed up phase, it may be confusing for the brain.

Is the stuffed ear thing like when a plane changes altitude? That makes people nauseous? I used to dive a lot so I got this a lot but I have never heard of people getting ill because of it. Maybe it is a different feeling but from reading the comments it is like that? I am weird though; I can play VR games forever (I played Skyrim VR for 6 hours straight last christmas while my friend who was over this week had to vomit after 15 minutes) and I like the popping feeling in airplanes. I also do phone calls with full noise cancellation on my Bose 35 headphones for hours and do not recognise the feeling from any description here. I do suffer badly from car sickness but not any other movement I tried. Diving + playing in a metal band when I was young really messed with my hearing (bad tinnitus etc); maybe that is related?

> Is the stuffed ear thing like when a plane changes altitude?

No, not really. It’s more like the feeling of being someplace persistently loud, except without the actual sound part, if that makes any sense.

It doesn’t make me nauseous, but it’s very unpleasant and tiring. I couldn’t handle wearing Bose noise-canceling headphones for any substantial length of time.

Has anyone else noticed the fit seems to worsen over the first week or two? Mine were perfect when I bought them. Now they lose the seal after an hour of wear.

"Stuffed ears" is the main reason I don't want to upgrade from my normal AirPods to the Pros...

Thank you for this comment. I currently cannot use my AirPods Pro in Noise Cancelling mode because of this stuffed ears thing, which immediately gave me nausea when I turned it on without anything playing. Now I'm looking forward to this update, although seems like Apple has since pulled it.

I have the Bose QC II I haven't updated to the latest firmware because apparently it nerfs the ANC and increases the sensation you're speaking of.

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/c4tvkw/psa_do_n...

Compared with a coworker who updated his. This issues appears to be valid. Even bose has been sending engineers to peoples homes to test in their environment. Just an FYI

I got a pair of this for Christmas and just recently put them in my ears for the first time having no idea they had noise cancellation built in. For a second I thought I broke my ears because everything was dead silent! I'm surprised how well the noise cancellation works, way better than the ancient Sony headphones I had.

Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse? Seems like it would be really subjective if not.

Thanks for the comment. I don't know the answer but came here to ask this too. It seems really useful to be able to objectively measure the efficacy of noise cancellation across diverse products.

Only way really is to find someone who didn't firmware update yet and compare them before and after.

I wonder if you could put them in one of these microphones with anatomical ears: https://3diosound.com

You could build an "ear" of sorts - i.e. a box creating a seal around the buds with a microphone in it and measure how much ambient noise it picks up.

With products like this, you really do want an actual anatomical ear for measurement - often they rely a lot on the rough physics of the ear itself to work right. There is a whole niche corner of the microphone industry for "dummy head microphones" that are basically an an actual model of a head with detailed ears, and are really useful for measuring both how things sound to a human in an open environment and getting measurements of devices like headphones that need a head + ear to work.

You can measure the dB of noise reduction on a headphone test bench.

Under the Isolation section here they have leakage (sound spilling out to others) and isolation (noise canceling). Keep in mind that dB is nonlinear, and the test results depend a lot on how well the testers fit the headphones on the head - so I would only consider these to be approximations within 1-3 dB of the real value.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare

Rtings hasn't (yet) done a pre/post update comparison for the AirPods but you could use the same methodology.

The HyperX Cloud II are a good (isolation/leakage-wise) set of 'normal' over-ear headphones which you can compare the numbers to if you've never used ANC and are curious. And the Sony WH-1000XM3 / Bose 700 are the leading noises canceling over-ear headphones.

The Sony XM3s are an awesome piece of hardware. The noise cancellation is top notch, the ear cups are the most comfortable and large enough to not put too much pressure (specially for folks like me who wear specs) and are extremely lightweight with ample cushioning.

Best 25k INR (was around 30% of my monthly salary == monthly rent) I ever spent.

Could only dream to have rent that is 500$! ;)

But that rent is 30% of my monthly salary. Between the rent, expenses, investments and credit card bills, I can't save more than $150 per month.

And that rent is for a single room in a 4 room apartment. :(

The rent for the entire apartment equals my monthly salary.

Bombay or somewhere posher in BLR?

Gurgaon.

I use Sony XM3s every day on the way to and from work, and a lot of the time I am there too. They're great.

The only thing that would make me happier is if they made a model with more passive sound isolation / insulation. The noise cancelling is awesome, but it can only do so much. I would gladly pay for this in increased size and weight. The amount of outside noise I want to hear is zero.

Yeah, really impressed with them myself. The noise cancellation is really impressive compared to my Bose QC20 (which I was very impressed with at the time, and I still hold on to as a really portable pair), music sounds amazing on them, and I can wear them all day without discomfort.

There are a couple of small things I’d change, primarily making it easier to connect/toggle between multiple Bluetooth devices (right now I either have to disconnect on the first device then connect on the second, or turn the headphones off and then on in pairing mode). Also it would be nice to have a clearer visual indication of whether they are on or not and what the battery level is - the battery life is great, but it’s quite easy to not realise they are low and/or leave them on by accident.

I’d highly recommend them anyway. Great for an office environment. Personally I did find a slight discomfort to the noise cancelling at first but very quickly adjusted, so this seems to be a very personal thing.

I bought it on Amazon in a daily deal for ₹15K but I had to return it as the box and headphone were damaged. They didn’t replace, just refunded citing the end of the deal.

I like mine but I wish they were more breathable. Of course that's hard with a closed design which probably is necessary for noise cancellation, but as someone who gets hot easily I have to take them off for a while every 30 minutes or so. No way I can use them in summer out in the open and even on the train I get sweaty fast.

But apart from that they're very comfortable and the NC is awesome.

>Is there an objective way to measure this so someone would know it's getting worse?

In principle it should be possible to do standardized testing of any set of headphones or earphones with a properly designed Dummy Head, similar or the same to what is used for things like generating binaural audio recordings. There at least were a number of major Dummy Head designers back when I last looked for something else, though I don't know what the current state of the market is. But basically you have something that physically simulates a human head, including both physically simulated ear pinnae and the ear canals, with microphones embedded within them that have a high enough res and response to completely cover the human discernible audio frequency range.

Obviously it won't tell the exact effect for any given individual because the shape of our ears varies. But it would be possible to have a completely open 3D/material/mic standard that would cover the max range, and could then be used to quantify and objectively compare all aspects of head mounted audio products, not just noise cancellation but audio reproduction. I assume this isn't a thing already in part because a lot of manufacturers are perfectly content without universal objective comparisons, since that would reveal a lot of high cost kit that isn't actually delivering any gains.

Some 4 years ago I did a bunch of work in this field and just wanted to chime in about a tool that I haven't seen anywhere else that was great - HEAD acoustics' Artemis Suite analysis software.

Audio has a huge array of analyses that can be performed, and the output can be interpreted in a huge number of ways, but Artemis had a fascinating data-flow architecture that made generating and interpreting audio, graphical and numerical data relatively easy (once you climbed the steep learning curve). It decoupled project management, input data, analyses, and output destinations in a way that made engineering easy.

I haven't worked with any software like it before or since, but would do another project in a heartbeat! Tragically, it's locked behind a proprietary $$,$$$ license, front-end, and calibrated recording hardware. But here's a screenshot to give you an idea: https://i.imgur.com/XXzlP2b.png. If you get serious about buying a head and fronted, call them up and get a demo.

how does it compare to the typical workflow of audio precision -> matlab?

the actual difference graph from rtings for the airpods pro pre/post fireware update is https://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/headphones/apple/airpo...

Can someone help me interpret these two graphs? The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way?

Yeah. I bought them day one with the old firmware and was a bit disappointed that the anc was weaker with high noises as I was used by my sonys. Didn't pay attention to any change when the firmware hit. And if hadn't read about it today, I couldn't have told you that they changed it. But maybe indeed they improved on the first impression I had.

> The updated one seems to be a lot smoother across the frequency range if a bit less effective on average. Maybe smoother noise cancelling is better in some perceptual way?

You nailed it: https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardru...

Something is wrong here. The noise isolation changed pretty dramatically even with ANC off, unless off wasn't previously off.

Maybe a seating problem?

The first time I put them on, I was in a room with a fan, and I thought it'd lost power because I didn't hear it. Took me a second to realize, nope, it was the noise cancellation.

There seems to be something going on related to firmware updates on noise cancelling headphones.

I can think of:

* October 2017 - Bose QC35. I don't know much about this one. [1]

* June 2019 - Bose QC35II: Reported loss of NC effect after updating to version 4.5.2 [2](211 pages so far). Some review sites confirm it [3][4].

* January 2019 - Sony WH-1000XM3: Reported decreased performance in NC after updating to 4.1.1. [4]

There are many theories around, such as planned obsolescence, patent infringements, changes to accommodate voice assistants or people getting used to NC over time.

Any opinions?

[1] https://community.bose.com/t5/Headphones-Archive/QC35-noise-...

[2] https://community.bose.com/t5/Around-On-Ear-Headphones/Bose-...

[3] https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/bose/quietcomfort-...

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyC9QStmzcA

[5] https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/portable-audio/sony-wh-1000x...

If a thing changes, people will complain. Thanks to the internet, we can find them. (This is true even if literally nothing changes except the version number.)

I think they all privately found they cause hearing damage. Since NC is sending out a cancelling wave to your ears doesn't mean they are actually reducing the total air pressure force inside your ears itself. To avoid future liability they pushed silent firmware updates that decrease the total sound pressure in the ear generated by the NC function while not telling anyone to avoid automatic future guilty verdicts.

Do you have a reference for this? I can't find anything that supports it (only the opposite!), and, intuitively, it doesn't make much sense.

My ear drum, and the hair cells behind it, do exactly one thing: respond to changes in air pressure. If the ANC isn't reducing air pressure forces, then why do I hear so little? The only way to hear less is to have less changing forces to disturbed them, is it not?

I assume the good ones designed with lowpass and aliasing filters to block out anything high frequency, but inaudible, that might damage hearing. These are absolutely not air tight, so there's nothing static, and the lack of bone-conduction sounds from walking makes me think it's keeping lower frequency pressure very well under control.

ANC is not actually cancelling out the second sound wave, it's exploiting an attribute of human hearing that two simultaneous out of phase sound waves are perceived as silence AFAIK. It doesn't mean that sound pressure goes away, and hearing damage can come from sound pressure that is too high for the hairs in your ear and damages those hairs as a result (ex: a lot of loud sound) is my hypothesis.

When I asked an audiologist if there has been research about ANC causing hearing damage, he said that it would be hard to get a grant structure that would work with it, since nobody is making money from it, and there hasn't been.

In tinitus, the frequency that people hear is around 4000hz, because that is where the first major bend in the cochlea is. It means that the loud sound that you hear doesn't necessarily have to be a specific frequency to damage hearing in that frequency either.

Two simultaneous out of phase sound waves do cancel each other out, there's not some 'silent sound pressure' left.

I think his idea is that some non planar wave within the ear would mean that the wavefronts would not be exactly matched for all reflection paths to and within the cochlea. This would mean the phase would not remain as they travel through the cochlea and could construct at some point around the hair cells.

But, considering the wavelength of 20kHz is 1cm and the ear canal is about 0.7, I can't imagine there's much room for anything but a nice planar wave heading down the canal, let alone within the cochlea.

But the QC25 remains as powerful as the QC35 ever was, so it wouldn't be that simple.

My Bowers and Wilkins PX has much worse battery life after updating its firmware. I've had them for two years and neglected to update the firmware till a week ago. Very disappointing when companies do this. We take the risk of bricking our devices all for a successful upgrade to brick it for us.

Yesterday I was walking in downtown Los Angeles while donning AirPods Pro and talking on the phone and I remarked to the person I was talking to that it felt like I was walking by myself in a quiet room because of how strangely quiet it was.

I'm surprised that upon checking, I seem to have the accused firmware. It's not that bad.

OT but I really have trouble with the idea of walking around cities with noise canceling earpods in. I'm even am a bit uncomfortable walking on a forest path with regular earbuds--and I mostly don't do it.

I guess I just grew up without such things and it feels a bit isolating.

For me, the isolation is the point

Yes it's very weird... but it's great when you're talking on the phone in a noisy place!

Absolutely. When I'm in a controlled space but it's noisy, noise canceling is great. I just can't empathize with cutting myself off from my surroundings like that if I'm walking down a sidewalk in a city.

I think the real feature is that you're in full control: the Transparency option is basically the opposite of noise-cancelling, giving you full operational awareness in a noisy environment without taking the headphones out. It's even trivial to switch between them (pinch and hold the stem).

The real use for noise-cancelling isn't city-walking, but airplanes, crowded coffee shops, etc. :)

Fully. I have the Bose wired ones and they're great for planes. I use them even if I'm not actually playing anything.

Transparency mode is great. That's what I normally use, and then only switch to quiet mode when I'm in a particularly noisy environment such as on the subway.

City streets are so loud I kind of hate riding/ walking without something to block out traffic sounds. It's particularly bad here in Oregon where they don't have SMOG/ noise regulation and idiots think running their trucks with straight pipes boosts horsepower in a meaningful way.

Believe me, they have noise regulations. The cops just love big trucks or something. Drive around a Honda with a barely noisy exhaust and watch the tickets pile up.

Rice burners are about the least offensive of the noise hogs. Harleys and Mega-trucks dominate the noise landscape here. I suppose on the bright side we do seem to have a lot fewer cars with ridiculously loud stereos than when I was in California.

Apple started recording audio exposure levels in Health. Using noise cancelling my normal dB level dropped noticeably.

Is noise cancelling as good as an actual reduction of noise on this count? I.e. is it actually lowering ear damage.

Also does transparency mode lower the decibels as well, while still letting in noise?

Other people have suggested noise cancelling may be a possible source of hearing damage...and I'm just some rando on the Internet, so I have no idea, but I do try and be aware of exposing myself to sustained loud noises.

All I've noticed is that I tend to have the volume at a lower setting with the AirPods Pro with noise cancelling when wearing them out and about. With AirPods I would occasionally max out the volume setting and sometimes wish it would go louder. I noticed similar things with previous, wired headphones. I tend to only use passthrough when I'm in a quiet environment, like at home, and listening for/to someone.

Apple Health shows audio exposure logging going back to Aug of last year. Back then I'm seeing 12-15hrs /wk of 90dB and a Loud! warning flagged (It says WHO recommends 4hrs/wk at 90dB). More recently (after buying the AirPods Pro) its logging 18-23hrs of 67-75dB (WHO recommends 40hrs at 80dB and 127hrs at 75dB). I tend to listen to podcasts. So it's talking instead of anything loud or sustained.

As far as I've seen, the only people who have suggested noise canceling may be a possible source of hearing damage are people who don't understand how sound works. Would love to see a single coherent explanation of how it could be the case from someone who has a clue.

Honestly I'd feel that walking around in a city with noise cancellation is dangerous. At night you risk mugging, and during the day you risk running into people or getting run over by a car or bicycle or something.

Isn't it dangerous to walk around without being able to hear car horns, people shouting, etc.?

Haven’t noticed any difference. They’re still my absolute favourite bit of technology I’ve bought in ages, despite their ridiculous price tag.

You’re not buying headphones. You’re buying control of what goes in (or not) of your ears ALL DAY LONG.

Serious question from somebody who actually does wear noise-cancelling headphones all day: how do you deal with battery life? Isn't it like 4 hours or something in that range?

Believe it's 4 hours. I have a pair and always find time during the day to recharge them if need be. Usually lunch is a good time to put them back in the case.

Yes, it's annoying if you want to listen back to back to two joe rogan podcasts. But maybe it's not that unhealthy to remove them from the ears every now and then, so the ear canal doesn't stay to sweaty. But yeah, it's a trade off. You get from 0 to 70% in 15 min. if you put them in the case to mitigate it, though.

You're right, listening that long to Joe Rogan can't be healthy.

Not using apple's, but my bose's QC 20 have about 15 hours of battery life. Their fully bluetooth model has about 8-10 hours. It doesn't have the "cool" factor of having two separate ear-pieces without wire between them, but it can handle a full day of work or a europe -> asia flight without having to recharge and that's more important to me.

A perspective from for whom no cable is life changing.

I have very sensitive ears and I always found the cable getting caught on something, even a minimal one just behind the head, pulling down on my ears which is a very unpleasant experience for me.

I can listen to an audiobook as I’m falling asleep with just one earbud in and no cables in my face. Being able to use just one at a time without having to tuck a cable into my shirt or down my collar which always comes out is fantastic in general.

I’m very active and being able to have two little pieces of plastic that I can tuck into a case with no cable in my pocket is very nice when my headphones go in and out of my pocket all day. Even the minimal wire on wire conneted bluetooth buds means careful wrap and store or risk cable strain from tangling in my pocket w/ my wallet keys phone etc.

I personally find connected wireless headphones to be the worst of all worlds, you still have most of the problems that come with a cable wrapped around your head brings and with all the downsides of wireless.

And you're absolutely right to pick what works best for you

For me battery life is a much more important and impactful factor

I use them all day long but obviously throughout the day at times I need to have them out of my ears to have conversations, during which I might even move from a room to another, and the ability to just have them dangle around my neck and have it there immediately when done is a superior experience

I might be lucky but I literally never have had the wire between two earpiece suffer cable strain, then again all my BT earpieces have been higher quality models with a good build quality

Also and like some of the things you listed it is purely personnal preference but the linking cable between the two pieces makes it feel more stable and safe to me

When they go down to about 10% and I still need to listen to something, I take one out and let it charge for 15 minutes which takes it to over 75% for me, repeat for the other and I’m done with no downtime and a mono experience for 30 mins.

In practice I don’t have to do that very often because when I’m not using them I’ll put them back in the case for a bit.

Good to know, thanks. I didn't think they'd charge that fast.

For all the other commenters asking, I do have noise canceling headphones right now and yes they last for > 20 hours so it's not a concern unless I forget to charge them because I'm an idiot.

Any noise-cancelling headphones or these specific noise-cancelling headphones? Because I own a pair of noise-cancelling headphones that have a 30-ish hour battery life.

Reading this I picture it being trivially easy to adjust the "volume" of the outside world. As if it's just another volume slider on my phone. Now that would be amazing to have.

My Bose QC20 from 4 years ago have a specific function for this in their noise cancellation (so eg you can ear and talk with the flight attendant for your food, while still having strong noise cancellation of other things like plane engine noise).

So not only what you're talking about is entirely possible, you can also have it done by type/frequency of noises.

Certainly knew it was possible but I didn't know if it was on the market. That's really cool and I'll check it out.

Not sure I want to attenuate different frequencies as much as I just want to reduce the volume of my kids.

If you check the QC20 (3.5 jack) or the QC30 (bluetooth) on google images, the side button on the remote/control pad switches between full cancellation and "cancel everything but voices".

My Sony MDR-1000Xs do the same thing. Also if you hold your hand over the ear piece, it temporarily puts it in passthrough mode so you can talk to people without removing your headphones.

Noise cancelling cans can kinda do that already... but they usually only have on/off for 'conversation mode' (ie, when someone is trying to speak to you)

None of these things that people are saying are the feature I want. I want a volume slider.

QC35 (not an ina-ear but a full blown headpiece) offers half mode, where noise cancellation is only at half level. Enough to not be distracted by the noises, yet also enough to ear that your kids are still playing in the next room.

Many stores will let you try them before you buy, so you check if it does what you want.

They literally do this. Not with much precision but you just squeeze them and you can talk to the shop assistant or whoever and have a chat. Another squeeze and it’s all so calm again. I commute on London every day and I tell you I feel so much more relaxed with the noise cancelling on.

>You’re not buying headphones.

Yeah, I actually expect my headphones to last more than two years.

The way is see it is like the famous quote about cameras - the best one is the one you have with you.

I can always have my AirPods with me with no effort. They’re in my pocket with the same certainty as my keys, wallet and phone. Unlike headphones where I need to have a bag to carry them, and there’s enough power in the case to get me through most of the week.

That’s what I mean by all day long, not literally every hour of the day but whenever I want them, I’ve got them ready to go.

That doesn’t answer the 2 year lifespan concern

I’m quite sure one uses airpods more during those two years than some over the ear headphones during their whole lifetime.

Yeah you’re right sorry. Replied to the wrong thread.

I guess I just don’t care. I’d rather have them and actually use them (unlike previous headphones I’ve had which I leave at home and forget about) and if I just have to get some more in a few years then so be it. Worth the trade.

If you have Apple care plus, you may just exchange the AirPods at some point during second year of wearing.

You’re assuming that they are only good for two years. It is true that they are tiny electronics with tiny batteries and some people have reported them dying after two years, but in my experience they don’t all. My AirPods gen1 were 2.5 years old when I replaced them with AirPods Pro and they were still good for about 80% of the original play time. I gifted them to my sister who is using them and has had no problems.

I use these for several hours per day and get plenty of use and enjoyment out of them. If they did die after two years, I’d say I got my money’s worth out of them and buy another pair.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-MDR-EX15LP-In-Ear-Headphones-P...

I've had a pair of these for the last 3 or 4 years - I've used them several hours a day (running, walking, working etc.) continuously and they're still perfect (for my ears at least). They've definitely been through the washing machine twice, possibly more.

What do you recommend for durable headphones that are useable for many years?

Koss Porta Pros. They're cheap, portable (light and fold well), good sound, lifetime warranty.

Provides no isolation.

It seems to me that Apple’s software is steadily regressing. One of my favourite apps is iBooks, but I cannot use it as it reloads for a good 10-15 minutes at times, or refreshes the screen here or four times unnecessarily. I am going to move to Kindle because of it.

Since we're on the topic of the Airpods noise cancellation, does anyone know why Apple doesn't let you enable noise cancelling with only one Airpod in? Is it just that they're worried about the pressure imbalance causing discomfort?

You can enable this through the Accessibility settings. It makes sense to be the default but I’m glad they made this configurable.

Oo that's very good to know, thank you! I give it a 50% chance I try it out and hate it but very glad it's an option.

Another comment told you how to change this behavior, but I heard someone rationalize the default behavior as taking out one earbud can signal you're trying to talk to someone so it disables noise cancelation so you can hear them with both ears.

Is the noise cancelling better on AirPods than QC35s?

FWIW, I think my in-ear, wired QC20s have much better noise cancellation than the AirPods Pros.

I have both. The AirPods have better NC because they have both active and passive NC. I think the active NC is better too.

The QC35s are more comfortable however.

In my experience, absolutely not. I returned my pair since the noise cancelation was worse than the passive blocking of $30 true wireless earbuds from amazon. Ended up settling on the jabra elite 75t— also just passive blocking. Still not as good as qc35s for work but better than the AirPods pro along with better sound quality.

The Apple Store sells both and will let you compare the two models if you ask nicely (with new/clean AirPods). I found AirPods have noticeably better noise cancellation (for me) than the QC35s, but YMMV. Subtle but better. It's hard to say if my impression was due to better passive noise isolation or improved active noise cancellation (does the QC35 have an error-correction microphone downstream?). One thing that is absolutely true is that the QC35s do not work as well mechanically for those of us who wear eyeglasses: the cushions can't seal around the temple pieces of the frames, so some sound will always leak under the eyeglasses. For that reason alone—even if the AirPods have equivalent noise cancellation tech—the AirPods can work better for people with glasses as long as the tips seal properly. My wife, an eyeglass wearer with long hair, also found the AirPods more effective at reducing noise when we tried them both at the Apple Store. I certainly find them effective for commuter rail travel.

As an aside, one slightly annoying usability issue with the AirPods is that in comparison to the QC35 they behave differently when part of a multi-output audio device under MacOS. My wife and I often watch video using two pairs of bluetooth headphones paired and synced to the same Macbook Pro[1,2]. It's great for late-night movies in city apartments. Using the QC35s and her headphones, the aggregate device remains selected when the QC35s are paused or turned off (meaning, she can still listen if I go out of range or turn off my headphones). With the AirPods, if I take one out of my ear (to scratch an itch, say), the AirPods suddenly become the only audio output device when I put it back in, and the second pair of headphones goes silent. A small annoyance, but curious.

1. Set up your own bluetooth audio "splitter" to allow multiple people to listen togther: https://support.apple.com/guide/audio-midi-setup/play-audio-...

2. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202000

According to the ratings tests, the QC35 has much better NC with -25dB compared to -21dB for the Airpods Pro. The Bose 700 reached an even better -28dB.

I had both (a gift I didn't ask for) and prefer the QC35s for NC and regular Airpods for casual on-the-go use.

Airpod Pros had worse noise cancelling but slightly better sound quality (clearer mids/highs, less bass). I think this is very subjective and depends on the situation and type of noise you're looking to block out.

If I could only own one pair of headphones I have to admit that the Airpod Pros would be hard to beat, as ridiculous as the pricetag seems.

When purely looking at rtings' measurements of noise isolation[0] the qc35ii is better, especially in the lows bass and the highs. They provide an option to listen to the difference, but this only gives you a clue as the sound will be colored by your listening device.

[0]: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare/bose-quietco...

The past few days I keep thinking the noise cancellation is off and try to turn it on, only to find it is on. It’s almost as if turning on noise cancelling also turns on transparency mode. I hear the outside noise clearly, just at a different pitch or something.

I'm not sure why this is being posted now since Apple pulled the update a couple days ago.

> But affected customers say the trouble began even earlier with firmware version 2B588, which rolled out in November. (Apple later pulled firmware 2C54 for unknown reasons.)

I just updated my phone to iOS 13.3 yesterday (was switching from unc0ver 12.4 semi-untethered jailbreak to checkra1n semi-tethered jailbreak) and my AirPods upgraded to this firmware.

It made its way on to my airpods. They haven't pulled hard enough until they make it go away in the wild.

Isn't this just like when people though the QC35s from Bose did this because everyone started saying they did even though there was no measurable difference?

Anyone have any experience with cheaper Anker noise cancelling earbuds? I'm experiencing the slight nausea mentioned above with my Bose QC20s and am looking for an alternative, but not at the Airpod price point.

Pretty positive. Got the soundcore liberty neo, used for the gym, not an audiophile. Sound is clear, ear fit is reasonably reliable.

From my perspective, I think it works a little better.

There's less of an "ears are plugged" sensation but everything remains quiet (it's actually a little eerie to me when I first turn it on).

Slightly off topic but any Android users here have the Airpods Pro? What's your experience been? Fwiw, I have a Pixel 3

I use them with Android exclusively for regular use. They work great, Pixel 3 here. Occasionally only one connects and I either have to turn Bluetooth on and off again, or put Airpods back and take them out. But only occasionally and usually if the phone is in my back pocket or something.

But the iPhone experience is significantly better. They connect via their special chip so it's more reliable afaik, you get to easily check battery status, and the tip fit test seems to only be available on iPhone. I use my partners iPhone to set it up with the fit test and to occasionally check firmware. But I charge them regularly and have never had a need to check battery life tbh, thorough there is at least one Android app that will check battery life, I didn't think it was that great.

Overall with the Pixel 3 they're still the best noise cancelling and general experience Bluetooth headphones I've ever used.

What was your experience updating the firmware?

This exact same thing happened to my Bose QC35 headphones.

Verge's primary source is a year old thread about the original airpods?

That thread is pretty active. And when you have an 'article' about a few 'owners complaining', discussion forum post sounds like an appropriate source.

I clicked it, saw posts from last March, scrolled down, still March, gave up. Oh well.

Are you able to update the AirPods Pro firmware through any Apple laptops?

Just buy the AirPod Pro 2 next Fall

Thanks for the heads up. No firmware updates for a while then.

Anecdote: after iOS 13, my microphone started not-working intermittently. It still doesn’t work consistently

Get them replaced under warranty.

Bose can't get over inflicting the annoying beeps or voice prompts on customers when earphones connect or disconnect from source.

It's impossible to turn this stupidity off. If you turn off voice prompts, it get replaced by beeps. And vice versa. If you have few devices - earphones either beeps or talks to you non stop.

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