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Comment by boernard | Hacker News Reader

... and there are many many HR departments going on a hunt for these people that got laid off

Is any tech worker seriously that desirable still that they are being hounded immediately after getting fired? I entered college in 2004 and transferred out of software engineering, feeling that developer/engineer jobs would quickly become the auto mechanic of the 21st century and wages at the grunt level would fall in line. I also didn't feel fulfilled with sitting at a computer all day. Fast forward to now, and while I work as a Civil Engineer I still find myself sitting at a computer all day regardless. While the pay is completely reasonable, I probably would be just as happy with my day-to-day working on software, while making more money from how things are looking.

I grew up on IRC and building SMALL scripts starting in 5th or 6th grade for software of the day such as Palace, customizing small bits of code to rename items in the dreamcast version of Phantasy Star Online, etc. When I took the 1st year of software engineering classes at Cal Poly Software Engineering could code perfectly serviceable and had As/Bs.

What would be the best way for me to dip my toe back in and see the type of work I'd be doing working in tech in 2020? Is there a way to bring my skills up to the current day through free or paid remote coursework, and are there ways to get small freelance work I could use to build my resume? Are there any good blogs following someone who has taken a similar path?

Yes- layoffs typically happen for bigger reasons than just performance. It is a bit of a red flag, I mean clearly you were not the most critical person the company could not do without, but its happened to me and it has not been an issue. In a struggling company, layoffs can happen for many reasons including- being too junior, being too senior (costing too much), working on a feature/product that is getting killed- its a lot easier to just cut everyone on that project then to start cherry picking them and moving them, disagreeing with the strategy, and sometimes there is just a mandate to cut 20% and your team could all be great people and its just a tough decision to make...

Dipping back in? Just code. Take some free classes on webdev, contribute to open source, build a portfolio of projects you can show off, you will get your foot in the door somewhere that might be a little crappy, but after a year or two it should be much easier for you to at least get a shot at a FAANG or a much better company.

Great! I have a number of friends I still talk with once in a blue moon at FAANG, though socially rather than about work. I'll start talking to them to see what direction they see their companies/divisions moving and what skills they could use.

And completely agreed about so many reasons to be laid off. My wife was forced out of a position at a very successful company not because of experience but because one single SVP was threatened by her. So many colleages were stunned to hear she left, but she ended up somewhere much more appreciative of her skills and experience.

> while I work as a Civil Engineer

Not answering your question, but just sharing some anecdote. A good friend of mine is a (unhappy) Civil Engineer and became passionate about programming. It's a hobby that he discovered later in his life. I can tell he's actually quite good (even though he lacks some fundamentals but he could learn fast). Unfortunately, I don't think he would be given a chance in company (here in France). My feeling is that the system is rather rigid, and there are some expectations for a junior developer job (a degree in the field, being less than 30). An option he could take and I think would work, is to take a one year CS program designed for people with different background. Some universities offer this type of program and it seems to work. Actually, I used to teach in such a program and the students were a joy to work with.

Thanks! Yeah its just an idea I'd like to look into at this point. As I said in my post I grew up natively thinking like a programmer surrounded by a bunch of hackers in university on IRC when I was still in grade school, but I never did any structured programming learning and when I got to college it just didn't feel like a realistic path to a career-long job, as to me coding was familiar enough that it felt anyone could (and would) learn it in the future, and there were only so many jobs to go around. Facebook was built with a handful of people, who would have thought in their wildest dreams a social media website would need more than 40,000 employees? I have no idea how many of them are engineers, but probably way more than I would have expected.

Take a software class at a community college. I had my eye on recruiting interns and new devs at the local community college and I went to the career fare and they said the entire graduating group had already been hired, mostly by microsoft. It's a crazy world with so much demand.

Are you suggesting a local community college only (Santa Rosa Junior College for me) or do remote courses work too? What class specifically should I be taking?

The first year curriculum at Cal Poly was Java at the time, and while cumbersome I did well enough, so I don't exactly need an intro to computer science course. I'd like to jump in to something for people with about a year's experience working with whatever languages are in demand right now. I know I need to learn to learn programming again and I'd be learning all my career if I make the switch down the road, but I'd still like to do it with a language that could get me some freelance work to start building a resume with.

I think remote isn't nearly as good as local. Locally you can get connected to companies that are sniffing around the college. Do they have a cs curriculum, I'd go through it step by step. You've probably not had much past "just programming". There's theory of computation, algorithm analysis - being able to do O(n) type calculations on algorithms (to compare choices) it a key interview ability, and it's useful in your job but crucial for 'real' software interviews.

In software engineering, there's using the tools (git, make, c++, dev environment - these days microsoft visual studio code is a free and commonly used dev tools that work s on linux and windows) and coding. But you will eventually need to get past it. Don't approach this as "oh my god, this will take years". Instead start with some programming classes, java or c++ or js or python, and look toward getting to those other classes eventually (theory of computation and algorithm analysis).

Good luck, you can do it.

I'm not claiming any personal credit for this per se. While I've made some good decisions, the vast majority of my good professional position over the past few decades has been luck.

> Is any tech worker seriously that desirable still that they are being hounded immediately after getting fired?

In the 25+ years people have been paying me to do what I do, I've been able to find a new position quite rapidly, once I decided to move on.

In fact, it's gotten easier over time. The last time I switched jobs, away from a startup that in my judgement didn't have good prospects, in six weeks, I had five competing offers, two from 'FAANG' companies.

I'm not some kind of 'rock star': far from it. I usually work more slowly than most of my peers.

Having said all that, I know that nothing last forever, and the blind fortune that brought me a specific set of skills and personality traits will move on.

> Is any tech worker seriously that desirable still that they are being hounded immediately after getting fired?

I get hounded constantly now, and I don't even do anything that interesting. Having a LinkedIn account and accepting connection requests from recruiters is a good first step.

Can you explain your insight on why you thought programming would be an unattractive field to work in in 2004, where wages would become much less, like they are for auto mechanics? Since the 1980s at least software has been probably the leading factor in increasing business performance, efficiency, and automation. I guess in 2000 there was the dot com implosion but after that there were always lots more demand than there were devs, there's really been a shortage of devs my professional life over 25 years except maybe 2001 and 2008. I used to worry that there would be an infinite series of much cheaper software engineers worldwide, taking my job for less page. I think there is enough work for all the tech workers in the world, plus many things are easier with local engineers, like product discussions and evaluation of quality. But there are great engineers all over the world, of course. Maybe we've had better university training in the us but I don't see that anymore, the people I work with from india and china are first rate.

Just write some code, some toy problems, find something that is fun and go from there. And yes, software engineers face constant recruitment, daily recruiter spam on linked in. It's been a crazy hiring environment for 10 years, even worse. Everyone you try to hire has a job already (that's where the negative comes in), college students often get jobs offers their junior year.

I wanted to be a software engineer throughout junior high and high school until I saw the dot com bubble burst. My naive 18 year old brain thought even if things look good for a few years, its just going to happen again. The year I graduated in 2008 again was a terrible time to enter the workforce, so I entered a field that needs to exist in some capacity irrespective of economy (municipal engineering). I haven't looked back much before now, but as my job went from a balance of field and office to primarily office, and I enjoy the mental exercise of coding more than I enjoy what office civil has become.

That makes sense. It's never too late! Getting back into it and then getting that first job will be the challenges. After that you'll have a programming resume and it will make it easier and easier.

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