DigitalOcean is laying off staff
techcrunch.com
techcrunch.com
Cofounder of DigitalOcean here.
Letting people go is always a complicated matter at any scale. Whether you are a ten person company and firing one employee or you are 500 people and firing a larger number.
Wanted to address a few statements from the hackernews community here.
We are not prepping the company for sale.
As unfortunate as the layoffs are they were really due to two CEO changes in the past 18 months and leadership changes that created competing directions in the business, which Yancey our new CEO, is now addressing.
We are not running out of money, nor do we have an immediate need to raise capital, and the lay-offs aren't related to any sort of "cost-cutting".
We last raised an equity round in the summer of 2015 and haven't had a need to raise capital since. This is because we are very capital efficient and have been since our founding.
There are no profitability issues with $5/mo customers as the unit economics are the same as larger accounts. As we have grown we have added more products and features so that scaling teams and companies can also be successful on DigitalOcean, but we are not changing our commitment to the individual developer and those who are just getting started.
Lastly, it pains me to see people let go, having been on both sides of the table, it honestly just really sucks.
The changes were mostly internal in how teams were structured and was the result of leadership changes that happened.
From the customer perspective we have never launched a product and then killed it. Anytime you are dealing with infrastructure and building services that other companies rely on for their business you have to be very sure that whatever you launch you plan to support just about forever.
A lot of the changes are actually about getting refocused on what made us successful, which is developers and the larger developer/open source community.
Can you please deliver a talk at Google some time?
The more time you spend in the corporate world, the more comfortable you are with corporate speak.
I haven't spent any time in the corporate world and I personally value honesty very highly, so I always try to be as forthright as possible, while still respecting the privacy and feelings of other individuals.
Honesty only works when the things you are doing are good
All the best, love DO, simple + clean and get's the job done.
Those 5$/mo droplets let me explore a lot of software and run proper production-like benchmarks for my own learning.
Over time I moved a lot of my personal projects and infra over to DO (and started working on new ones now that I had a good provider to host them on).
And now with the new managed offerrings for the CORE technologies people need (databases, caches, K8S etc.) I'm happy to see that I can start being a little more productive with my side projects.
So, in essence I want to thank the people at DigitalOcean for what they've built and continue to build.
Our goal with DigitalOcean was always to help more people get involved with technology.
The community team that is one of the pillars of DigitalOcean was built by Etel. She herself went through this transition. She graduated college with a liberal arts degree and was working as a bartender because she couldn't get another job.
I gave her a book on programming and told her that if she figured it out I would figure out a way to get her a job. She indeed did figure it out and when DigitalOcean was able to start hiring, she was the first hire we made.
Initially she worked customer support, and soon after we put her in charge of building "community".
She wrote the first several hundred articles herself. She then went on to build an entire team of writers and editors and community managers. And that team also created amazing events both on a local scale as well as Hacktoberfest.
So many people have been thankful for to us for our articles and resources, but they wouldn't be what they are without people like Etel. It's really an expression of who she is and her beliefs and values as a person.
That's why we want to continue investing in community and ensure that those individual developers just getting started feel like they truly have a home at DigitalOcean. Because those are the very same people that built DigitalOcean in the first place.
It's surprising really that in all the praise I threw to DigitalOcean the awesome documentation and tutorials flew under my radar. That's not to say that I don't value them. Rather the complete opposite. They had become such an integral part of my life when getting my hands wet with a new technology or a tool or setting up any new software or system that I completely forgot that they were something that someone invested a lot of time writing.
I was still in college/starting out then and had never learned that most developers don't document things (let alone write tutorials). I believed there must be internal websites similar to DO's documentation and tutorials in each company and took DO for granted.
It'd be really great if you could share my thoughts about how great and instrumental the documentation and tutorials have been to Etel and the team specially.
Also, have a great weekend.
Seconded.
Thank you thank you thank you cloud providers for making compute power so cheap. I realize you do it because you know you will eventually make the money back 10000x over when we persuade our bosses to lock in to your ecosystem, but I don't care. (Capitalism is not perfect, but hey, sometimes it can be okay)
DO tutorials are amazing, by the way. I learned so many things from your docs, it shows a lot of hard work by some very talented people.
Programming in the 2010s and 2020s is kind of like union labor work back in the 1950 and 1960s: not instantaneous riches, but meaningful work that leads to a decent middle to upper class life.
Unfortunately, this won't last forever. Other countries are catching up to the U.S. quickly. Eventually, development will move to cheaper labor countries like so many other industries. What is frustrating though is that if the U.S. actually focused on developing its talent, we could maintain the lead for another decade or two longer than if we just sit on our hands. With that extra lead time, we could come up with the next major industry (AI-training? quantum computer programming?), but as it stands now, many other countries will be equally poised to jump on the next opportunity and we'll squander our lead forever.
Agreed. I have several (very smart) coworkers in other countries. And our political system is an atrocious thing to watch these days. Whatever happened to compromise?
I don't think anybody really knows for sure what the future holds. The thing is with cloud computing and with the spread of technology into the developing world they will likely be needing engineers too.
Of course that may not happen if the software world is so carved up that all of the business goes to a handful of companies that are employing a fixed number of people and concentrating the gains.
And if Elon Musk has a breakthrough with neuralink, then maybe we'll all be out of a job. Why write code when you can think print('hello world')?
On the other hand, big players can get disrupted, technology can change, and its not like every human being has the capacity/stomach for the abstract problem solving we do day to day.
Outsourcing can, in some cases, raise additional obstacles to this goal through differences in language and/or culture, and every mistake here adds additional cost to the project. This isn't insurmountable, but usually I don't see this even considered when the question of outsourcing comes up.
That, and the group we outsourced to happened to be in a part of the world that was in the middle of a literal civil war, so staff sometimes couldn't work because staying alive was more important. Being aware of the near-future geopolitical situation of your people is important anywhere, and just kind of happens by osmosis when you're working domestically.
I very much look forward to Neuralink, but as you point out on the following line, this will also not turn non-programmers into programmers because the main hurdle is not knowing the syntax, but formulating thought into a structure that's useful for computers, and it seems most non-programmers do not have the mindset for it. Programmers are people who turn ideas into formal logic. Although some things can be automated there, I personally think the future's still bright for developers with people skills, wherever they may be.
People have been saying this for like 2 decades now when the magic buzz word then “offshoring” [0]. Offshoring and its cousins still happen as a cost-cutting measure, except not at the scale most people would imagine based on the enormous hype it received from “thought leaders”.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Is_Flat#Ten_flattene...
I think it is happening at the scale people imagined. The amount of foreign trade and offshoring that the U.S. is doing with developing countries is multiple orders of magnitude higher than it was in the early 1990s.
I've also seen cases where it clearly wasn't worth it. It just depends on the project, communication and company culture. There's something to be said for walking down a hallway to actually talk to someone.
Of course the disparity north to south is less so, as meetings can be aligned better... such as with say California, Washington, Arizona and Brazil. The fact is, value is value... if you're constantly learning and experimenting, you're ahead of the curve and can deliver value where others don't.
Are you running at a profit or at a loss?
In 2013 when we hit product market fit, we ran at a huge loss (on a percent of revenue basis), so much so that we wouldn't be able to survive without raising capital from investors. That or 90% of the customers signing up wouldn't be able to launch a droplet.
We are running at a modest loss now, which is ok because we are growing and also because whenever you launch a new product or feature the up-front costs are much higher to get the initial product built and there is no revenue contribution from it until it's launched and has ramped up.
But even so we did manage a completely net profitable year in our history in 2017, which I'm very proud of, and have been at a slight loss in other years. We still have plenty of our Series B raise in our bank account.
When you look at today's IPOs they are losing 40% more money than they collect in revenue! We are no where close to that. As we have been net profitable already, and now are just fine tuning our investment vs return, so that we can continue to grow responsibly.
Could you operate at a profit if you wanted to?
I run all my JS / Front & back at glitch.com , with a another glicth.com app that awakes the others each 4 min
What made us successful was focusing on a core set of customers, developers like ourselves, and they really appreciated what we built.
The only thing I worry about is ensuring that we continue to do that. The only constant in technology is that it will continue to evolve and change, and you have to make sure that you don't get distracted from your core mission. You certainly have to be aware of the competition and what they are doing, but you also have to figure out your path and who you are the "best" solution for, and continue to evolve that overtime.
Did you pass that through legal? :)
Thanks, yours, another loyal not-customer-support-harassing 5$/m DO customer.
Besides the lack of BS, I think I can learn a lot from your sentence and paragraph structure. Well-thought-out but to-the-point sentences. Short paragraphs. Direct communication on a difficult subject that shows empathy but doesn't try to sugarcoat.
Thanks, I bookmarked this page just as a reminder of effective communication.
You're contradicting yourself here.
They had several different chefs that all had different ideas about the menu, probably resulting in too many odd dishes, and maybe more cooks than necessary. That might lead to not executing well on the dishes at hand. Refocusing on a few good dishes, and making sure there's not too many cooks, might result in a better dinner. Unfortunately, that may require letting some cooks go.
I used to be with AWS before (still use their S3) but now I have switched from EC2 to DO droplets. Only thing I am missing with DO is the ability to set up ACL on the firewall itself so it can only be reached via cloudflare and the firewall IP isn't exposed to outsiders.
Please don’t add too many services to Digital Ocean ;)
The thing I am proposing about the ACL on firewall already exists in DO - but it only exists for the droplets. I don't think it would be too hard for them to port it over for the firewall too without making things too complicated.
It's obviously an incredible platform with excellent tooling, and it probably powers most of the websites I use. But like most trades the same job can be done to a similar standard at a variety of scales using wildly different processes and tooling. And that's fine. The economics seem to be inverted (AWS is large scale and quite expensive in my experience while DO is smaller and cheaper), but it's also not a perfect analogy. I just won't begrudge anyone for using a tool or process I don't love. If it gets your blog or multi-million dollar revenue product online, that's awesome.
I'm glad I can say I used some AWS stuff on my resume, but for my own work I'd only use it if it had a clear advantage over whatever else I'm using.
I know DO is just stretching their legs on hosted solutions beyond simple storage and droplets (compute), but these are two features I'd rather not manage myself, that have some pretty big value.
Being API compatible to AWS (or even GCP/Azure) would be relatively big... that said, would just be nice additions that would round things out a lot imho. I don't think I am really wanting for anything else (since DBaaS with PostgreSQL started).
Just curious, why DO needs an outsider as ceo rather than somebody from founding team?
But that doesn't not mean not having a Plan B just in case. And think it out. Do you want redundancy in provider in case you're blocked? Do want redundancy in payment system in case your bank blocks you? Do want redundancy in data centre in case a data centre is destroyed or becomes unavailable? Other, staff unavaibility plan, etc. All of these have some cost. Think what's most important for you.
If you haven't had a need to raise capital since your founding because your were capital-efficient, then why did you raise an equity round in 2015?
Either your statement is worded inaccurately or you did need capital funding after your founding, indicating you also need it now or will soon.
While I don’t think there is anything deceptive or mean-spirited about your comment, it just doesn’t add up, and comes off a bit like the same old corporate verbal shuffling.
Nothing obligates you to comment or speak out on this. Why do so here in this forum if this is all there is to say?
DO's board has been atrocious (not you and Ben). The way they handled bonuses even the years that we were growing 40+% because we missed #'s due to factors outside any employees control, was a joke. The hiring of Mark Templeton was one of the absolute worst things that could have happened, he damn near put DO on the brink of destruction.
That said, it seems like Yancey is doing all the right things. The internal DO culture has been coddled for way too long and has been way to top heavy, predominately due to the revolving door of engineering leadership. Since I joined, I've seen Julia, Greg, Dizzy, now Al w/ Barry... and that's been what like 3.5 years?
The Boards support of the current GC is also astonishing, he's been incredibly anti-people and has downright participated in discriminatory practices. I'd HIGHLY encourage DO to setup an ethics hotline, there's been a long-term lack of ability to report concerning behavior without fear of reprisal.
Also, in your previous comments, yes the profitability #'s look surprisingly good, but lets be honest with the community and talk about cash. It's easy to look profitable when you are capitalizing so much, and it's not a fair representation of company performance. While I admittedly don’t really have any transparency into our #’s, its been talked about internally plenty that we have a cash issue. (Although it’s never been indicated that it’s desperate, and for those reading the company isn’t in financial distress, although they’ve been subtly cutting a lot of benefits and doing things to save cash like reduce travel, cut meal benefits, etc).
I'm proud of Yancey and Bill. GC needs to go, period, demonstrate ’togetherness’ Yancey talked about by showing us that accountability applies to all levels. Head of people is doing her best, but we deserve someone that wasn’t a Mark hire that understands our industry, and CTO I'm on the fence about, he's not an inspiring leader.
(Apologies for the throwaway account, surviving here for as long as I have has been difficult. I’ve connected through TOR and two VPNs, and don’t know PW so will never be logging into this account again — so, don’t bother trying to find me.)
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Satisfying people's curiosity improves the conversation, and calling someone out in the public square is a good way to create accountability that doesn't exist in private communication.
Is HN an appropriate way to tell the DO board that XYZ people should be fired? In the end I just don't get it. This sort of comment isn't doing the commenter any good.
They're an employee concerned about their company (and arguably more important, their job security). A public forum like HN is absolutely a way to highlight workplace discrimination, which this person did in a way that doesn't publicly accuse anyone yet allows someone with power ('raiyu in this case) to know who is doing it.
Also, they points out that 'raiyu is lying, or at minimum being misleading, to everyone on HN in his comments. That's valuable to the community.
There's no such thing as proprietary information, and I think most people on HN will agree with that statement. There are secrets, but proprietary information is a buzzword. That sounds like a defense contractor term.
It's also not "guesses as truths." That's a very curious way to describe "shared knowledge." The person seems to have gotten information from their coworkers, and they're talking about it in the context of that.
Sending a private message on another protocol/platform brings zero accountability while reducing the person's anonymity (which they're clearly worried about maintaining), while this at least leaves a mark that can't be deleted (by replying to it, you actually made it so it couldn't be deleted if the person wanted to within the deletion window. That's one of my favorite features of HN; it makes historically-relevant information stay there forever, essentially).
A public forum is an appropriate place to tell someone who has power over you that someone else who has power over you should be fired, especially given Digital Ocean's seeming lack of a way to do so with anonymity otherwise. Anonymous disclosure is necessary for power structures to function without serious abuse.
One mans opinion, whether he be a wage slave or not, is not the property of his employer.
There is no company that gets everything right and I know that DigitalOcean hasn’t, and personally I haven’t gotten everything right myself. Certainly, I’ve made a ton of mistakes.
The real question is are we headed in the right direction now?
And you yourself have said that it looks like Yancey is right leader for DigitalOcean. And I would agree with that wholeheartedly.
2019 was one of the worst years for me financially, jobless, in debt and with a one year old child and girlfriend to look after. I was always late on payments for my 5$ digitalocean droplet and would always have my account suspended. I would always ask for an extension period and the wonderful guys at digitalocean would gladly grant me an extension and lift the suspension off my account.
And when I read the story my heart skipped a beat wondering what was going to befall my entrepreneurship dreams this year. Thanks a lot for the comment and am forever grateful to you and the team at digitalocean
When a company becomes a certain size, it's inevitable that you will hire people looking for a job.
Firing people sucks. Yes, it affects their livelihood, but having warm bodies on your roster affects your business.
The problem with people who have a job is that they affect company culture as they set the tone for acceptable and unacceptable behaviors in the workplace. It spreads like a disease and the effect can cripple those who show up to work.
Sometimes, this can lead to confusion as people who have a job might think, "I was doing what I was told. I don't understand why." Creating value is much more than simply following orders.
Out of the blue, one day the boss summoned me and told me I wasn't delivering enough value so I would be leaving. I knew he was lying (I had the numbers), and it still made me feel terrible.
If someone here is on a similar situation, let me tell you this: if you do your best and yet they tell you "you don't deliver enough value", it is the company's fault, not yours.
Really, just shrug it off and move on. Keep working hard and things will eventually work out.
PS: Four months later they wanted to hire me again, paying 50% more than before. I already had a better job ;)
You guys haven't always nailed it, but overall, all of the points you've listed show that the ship isn't sinking even if it took on some water. It's great that you addressed this and all, but overall, all of this is a sad part of business. As long as it's not taken lightly and everything that can be done to avoid a repeat of this in the future is being done, that's all you can really do.
There are no shortage of requests for this feature and as owner of my data and VM, I'm simply trying to keep an offline backup. Linode has had this feature for a very long time.
That $5/mo has to cover the hardware costs: you're buying expensive physical servers to put the VPSes on, and lots of SSDs too. SSDs have a limited lifetime measured in writes, and some of your customers will leave broken programs running that chew through this precious resource for no reason. If you throttle them, they'll complain.
Then there's the support. Handling a support ticket costs you at least $3 in salary and benefits (remember, your typical customer pays $5/mo), and people will demand that you help them fix their broken MySQL server or whatever. They'll yell and threaten when you tell them that this is outside the scope of what you can do.
And don't forget security. Your customers will install broken-ass Wordpress sites and forget to upgrade them for 5 years. Then a worm sweeps through and now a whole bunch of them have been pwned and are mining cryptocurrency. Those pwned customers are complaining and demanding that you fix it, and the regular customers are also upset because of slowness due to the "noisy neighbor" problem inherent to all VPSes.
Speaking of which, preventing one VPS from hogging all the CPU or disk bandwidth is harder than it looks. The two dominant software platforms are Xen and KVM, and neither gives you great tools for dealing with disk bandwidth. Limiting CPU is much easier, but there's still the problem that you're overselling. Which is fine until half the VPSes on your machine are trying to mine Ethereum.
On the bright side: half your customers will buy the VPS, leave it running, and forget about it for years at a time. That's what makes the $5/mo business model work out.
Anyway, I do hope they can become profitable! They run a much better operation than the incumbents they replaced (slicehost, etc).
But DO cannot have the monopoly margin enjoyed by AWS and alike.
One example, the hardware cost for AWS probably will be significantly cheaper than DO. That alone can sentence Do to death.
And frankly, DO is better at UX, its technology is not innovative in any measure. By definition, that's a death penalty to a firm of its size.
Cloud hosting is low margin. You sell IaaS at about the cheapest possible price point you can. That's the very definition of low margin. Economies of scale don't enter in to whether or not it's a low margin business, they only define how competitive you can be in a low margin business.
IaaS is not where you make the money. The margins have to be tight to be competitive because that's the dollar value people see first when evaluating your cloud platform. It has an immediate effect from day one.
The profits are not made on IaaS, but on the PaaS and SaaS solutions that you, as a cloud provider, build on top of the IaaS. Things like your DBaaS, Streaming, Functions, Load Balancers, Data warehouse etc. products.
Once they're on your platform, that's when you try to get them to pivot. "Why spend engineering effort on running and maintaining database servers, when we can do it for you immediately?" Of course, then once they're using your value-added solutions, they start to get towards vendor lock in, every business's favourite situation. A customer that can't leave!
It's a difficult balancing point, you want to make it seem to the customer like they can realistically leave any time they want, but you don't want them to so you do just the absolute bare minimum you can get away with to make it seem like they're not locked in to your platform.
It seems like it took Digital Ocean a long time to realise that they need the SaaS and PaaS components if they're going to be in this for the long haul. When we launched Oracle Cloud Infrastructure some 3 1/2 years ago, we launched with features that Digital Ocean hadn't yet bothered with, and we were trying to launch with what was seen as the bare minimum to be a viable cloud product.
DO only added load-balancers in 2017, https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/14/digitalocean-launches-load..., and a Block Storage service in 2016. That's (in both cases) 8 years after AWS launched EBS (2008) and ELB (2009).
Prior to those services existing, it was relatively easy for any customer to just drop Digital Ocean for another cloud provider, but even those services aren't a big lock-in for customers.
I sincerely hope it's not too late for them. I like Digital Ocean. They really shook things up when they first hit the market, by bringing something a little different to the plate, but that was never enough to survive and it seems like they only relatively recently realised that.
they are heavily throttled on disk I/O, so much so that I had to switch to AWS and pay per I/O for one project.
also the network seems throttled to 100Mbps up/down, and a few TB/mo, something which Scaleway for $3/mo is unlimited TB/mo and at certain times 2.5Gb/s
I would definitely have signed up for a competitor if DO droplets cost 400% what they do now. As other commenters have said, this space is a brutal race to the bottom in pricing. DO is great, I might pay 50% more for their current services, but not 300% more.
As someone doing proofs-of-concept and experimental work, the resource I'm trying to conserve is my own time, and Digital Ocean's value proposition on that is great. Everything works really straightforwardly and I can concentrate on my own code.
I wouldn't suggest Digital Ocean change their high-volume pricing, but the experience they provide to the small-scale user is worth a premium.
I've used other hosts in the past and had nothing but trouble. Joyent ended one of their hosting plans and I had to migrate EVERYTHING which took forever. Then Rimuhosting had an actual hardware failure that resulted in non-reproducible errors happening very frequently - that company nearly brought down my whole business. Then there was Serverpronto which had too much downtime.
by comparison, DO has been much much better, always up, always trouble free.
"Legacy Service End of Life" here are the details: "We've been analyzing customer usage of Joyent’s systems and noticed that you are one of the few customers that are still on our early products and have not migrated to our new platform, the Joyent Cloud.
For many business reasons, including infrastructure performance, service quality and manageability, these early products are nearing their End of Life. We plan to sunset these services on October 31, 2012 and we'd like to walk you through a few options."
So, I had to migrate everything to a new host which was a huge pain at the time because i was running a live Strategy game which are very time consuming to move with a minimal amount of down time, disruption and risk. not to mention everything that goes to changing over the DNS servers to point to the new address. Facebook login also added another layer of complication. It's all doable, but it takes a lot of planning and risk mitigation to get it 100% right with an absolute minimum of downtime.
Other than that, joyent uptime and performance was fine. But, having to move hosts is a big deal breaker.
I wonder if the Always Free tiers of GCP / OCI have helped DO in this regard. You can get a lot of free VMs these days, so maybe other cheapasses like myself have left the DO / Linode / etc platforms.
I feel like GCP/AWS free tier have probably hurt the $5/mo hosting business a lot.
We are considerably smaller than DigitalOcean in staffing head count. But we have a network that is spread out geographically across five states and 30+ cities and towns, built a combination of third party lit L2 transport, dark fiber IRUs, and fiber we built ourselves. We're a facilities based WAN provider.
There are so many different possible types of ISPs. For a small organization it only makes sense to decide whether you want to go after a huge number of $5 a month customers, or if you want to focus your time and effort on customers that spend anywhere from $250/month upwards for last mile broadband services, colocation/hosting services, etc. As a generalization, the higher the dollar value of the customer, the less of a headache they are, and the higher the clue level of the customer is.
I concur with 100% of what the above poster says about the hosting business.
Bulk hosting/VPS/VM hosting is an incredibly brutal race to the bottom in pricing. Extensive well crafted automation tools and massive economies of scale are the only thing that will save you. I truly feel sorry for the people who are working (mostly entry-level) jobs doing first tier technical support/customer service for 5 dollar a month VPS customers.
If somebody wanted to hire me to work for a consumer-facing hosting company I would run away screaming. It's my idea of a personal hell in the ISP business. Those who have found a way to make it work, not go bankrupt and not have mental breakdowns are a rare breed.
Ironically, this same strategy is what makes cloud providers more interchangeable to their users, and drives down prices.
For 6-7 years now I'm using DO for free but my only resource-intensive instance is a personal VPN server that I use from time to time(a few hours a day maybe?).
At first, DO use to give referral payouts in cash, then they limited the payouts to credits, then changed the structure and introduced expiration date to these credits.
I would guess that this referral program that probably helped them a lot with the growth at first is now a burden.
I don't understand
a) How does this possibly make them money?
b) If they want signups that much, why is the flow for joining the referral program so buggy?
(It's Mailgun, btw)
b) Because as long as some signups happen, noone is testing it.
My interpretation of their marketing pages is that they pay out referral payments in cash (actually SWIFT, but...) once a signup has something charged to their credit cards. So they can't rely on unused credits. And they lose money on every referred signup that makes them less than $120 in profit.
This seems insane to me, because someone sending tens of thousands of emails to hundreds of people a year gets them less than half that in revenue.
Although some undoubtedly pay more than the lifetime value of a customer as a "growth hack". This of course can't go on forever.
They take in less than the referral payout in revenue for a customer who sends tens of thousands of emails a year for five years based on their pricing page.
IMHO referrals work amazing when people you refer mostly want this problem to go away and it's not their primary occupation.
I've had a "shared hosting" setup on Dreamhost for at least 15 years, also using pennies per month in capacity, at most.
I get that it can be a brutal, low-margin business, but I also wonder how many "small" customers are extremely high-margin like me, and whether that can aggregate into a better overall margin than you might guess?
Or will you always have a few outliers running at capacity and calling the help desk and blowing out your margins?
The 80/20 rule in in full effect here. The 'needy' customers are extremely resource intensive.
The key to remaining competitive in cut-throat industries is knowing where to spend your limited time and money.
How does this apply to Planet Fitness in any way?
one decent incident can cost a multiple of a year's revenue for the account.
5 weeks. Deleted everything.
Yes, I screwed up. But I would have happily paid them. They deleted the backups too.
When we inquired as to whether the backups could be restored now that we’ve paid them, they said it was impossible.
Blame me if you want and say it’s my fault. It certainly is; I admit that. But why was I paying them for backups that they wiped along with my server?
Meh.
(The card expired.)
Sounds like you weren't paying for backups.
tl;dr - customer stops paying service provider, and service provider stops providing services. Customer is upset.
This one's on you.
The issue seems to have been that you weren't.
Lost everything when they deleted the backups. They turned off the server on the same day, and it was running fine right up until then. Zero warning other than the emails I didn’t see.
How should they get ahold of you? A call that you don't answer? A letter that goes unopened? African swallow laden with a note that you don't see?
Keep backups elsewhere. Regardless of cloud provider or payment terms or whatever. 3-2-1 backups.
It's five weeks really poor form but eight acceptable? Seems a bit subjective.
All in all, from the moment of non-payment to the moment that everything you have on their servers is gone shouldn't be less than 90 days in my personal opinion. If that raised the cost of my backups by a few dollars, so be it. The backups are there to account for things I may not have been able to consider.
I would love to live on the planet you live on
If there were, for any reason, an internal lapse in communication or processes (imagine small companies...) that could result in a pretty sour situation.
5 or 6 weeks vacation per year, + about 1 or 2 more weeks in total, because of Christmas, NYE etc, is how things work in Scandinavia.
(I feel curious about how things are, where you live )
DO reserves say $20 (just an example) when one spins up a new droplet, and if one forgets to pay — then, DO shuts down the server. But keeps the backups, until the GB-month cost is $20.
One could choose how much money to reserve, depending on how important the data one stored on the droplet, was. If it's just for running test: $0. Customer data: Maybe $$$ instead.
There could be a default that made the backups stay for 3 months?
Any remaining money could be refunded, whenever one wants.
(also "cross-posted/replied" here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22094218 )
What they could do is work out some high restore cost which makes the numbers work on holding all that data for longer.
The hold happens right away and prevents you from creating new billable resources.
Then a suspension happens several weeks later, which powers off your servers.
You don’t get terminated until a couple weeks after that, at which point the data is irretrievable.
The time between each stage can vary depending on how long you’ve been a customer or what your monthly payments in the past have been, but that’s the gist of it.
I had my wallet stolen on one of my work trips, and had all of my credit cards deactivated and new numbers issued. Digital Ocean's emails went to my "bulk" folder, and I missed the notifications saying that they were going to disable, then deactivate my service.
What caught my attention was one of the support guys emailing me and saying basically, "Hey, I see that you've been a customer for a long time -- we're going to give you 30 more days to fix this (and btw, you still owe us for your services so far) before we delete everything."
That support interaction -- that wasn't flagged as spam -- is literally what kept my data, and it keeps me using Digital Ocean: amazing support.
A lot of people seem willing to blame you without knowing the answer to this question.
On a different note, this kind of thing is probably one of the top threats to the survivability of a cloud-powered site or service. Alongside vandalism by disgruntled (ex-)employees, I imagine it happens far more often than outages in cloud providers' infrastructure.
In contrast, I haven’t paid Dropbox for years and my data is all still there.
Is there a simple solution for this?
DO reserves say $20 (just an example) when one spins up a new droplet, and if one forgets to pay — then, DO shuts down the server. But keeps the backups, until the GB-month cost is $20.
One could choose how much money to reserve, depending on how important the data one stored on the droplet, was. If it's just for running test: $0. Customer data: Maybe $$$ instead.
There could be a default that made the data and backup last for 2 or 3 months?
And any remaining money would be refunded, if one closes one's account or sth like that.
* * *
Actually I'll look into implementing this, in my own SaaS (which, like DO, takes monthly recurring payments and stores customer data).
I remember at the time I suggested $5 plan should be limited to 1 per account or only for non- public internet facing usage. But the $5 plan made lots of headline and new customers during the growth at all cost stage.
So if $5 plan were really the problem that it was really their own making. Having said all of that I dont think $5 is really their concern. Hardware is cheap, and those plan with vCPU are shared and always over sold. The number of bad actor within the lowest plan are statistically quite small.
I actually think the future should be more like Render[1],
Side note: I took that cluster and split it into 8. Then moved them to different geographical locations and where I could use friend or families residential connections and a cloudflare cluster to offset my cost in exchange for unlimited hosting. Very similar to Ceph actually
Nope. Any hosting provider will be located at a carrier neutral datacenter or the like. At any of these you will have access to low cost IP transit providers and Internet exchanges. You can buy 100G IP transit for $5k per month, so Internet cost isn't really an issue.
I'd be curious to learn more, even Cogent is in the $0,20/mbps ballpark which would be ~$20k/month for 100G.
If you can't get proper quotes, hit me up. I can always use the residuals for brokering a 100G sale :)
This makes it sound like you could get a big win in the VPS-provider space by drawing an ROI line at ~$20, and making all instances below that size diskless, with their rootfs being either a tmpfs overlay of a shared SAN-mount of a base image (like a LiveCD environment), or a tmpfs into which was dumped a PXE initramfs image (as e.g. CoreOS does in its idiomatic deploy style.)
I feel like many customer use-cases would still be satisfied by such instances (especially if you also offer local object-storage for the diskless instances to interact with.) It'd sort of be a hybrid position between ephemeral PaaS containers, and actual persistent VMs.
Anyone know of a provider that provides low-cost long-running diskless VPSes like this?
Of course that already exists, and DO offers it for $5.
Well, to be honest, Vultr has 2.5$ (IPv6 only) and 3.5$ plans. So, if they're getting by, so could DO.
https://www.vultr.com/products/cloud-compute/#pricing
I actually migrated from DO to Vultr because at the time DO offered 512 MB RAM for $5, while Vultr offered it for $2.5. And Vultr gave me $50 bonus platform credit on sign up, valid for about 18 months (accounting for possible overage fees).
I'm still on Vultr, 3 years on. No problems at all, other than billing issues (accidentally was assigned Australian VAT despite living in Serbia), I had no support tickets. After some time I started using more instances, and more powerful instances, and more services (block storage, "portable" IPs, object storage, internal networks, etc).
I've had a lot of problems with DO's Object storage which was also one reason to move away from them. Problems were quite catastrophic in nature, i.e. the files were unavailable for a few hours every few weeks.
And we have no idea if a similar action by Vultr is imminent (I'm not saying it is -- but we don't know).
They will, and you will tell them to leave. Unmanaged VPS' are unmanaged.
> Those pwned customers are complaining and demanding that you fix it Tell them to leave, they are paying $5/mo after all.
> regular customers are also upset because of slowness due to the "noisy neighbor" problem inherent to all VPSes Throttle abusive users, and hand-wave it via AUP, TOS, etc.
> neither gives you great tools for dealing with disk bandwidth That could, should and will be fixed sometime.
Recently I ave got into Upcloud.com, they have [1] flexible plan that you could mix and match resources, allow me to spin up 20x vCPU, 1GB RAM, 10GB SSD for $168 / month, or 4x vCPU, 128GB RAM, 10GB SSD for $550 / month.
Pretty damn good if you ask me.
The founders of NordVPN have recently invested in Hostinger[1], which has successfully adopted their extremely profitable pricing model: charging for 2-4 years in advance, by default. This way, even those who would have paid $5 / month and cancelled and a few months later, end up spending $100+ for 24-48 months at once, often without having a clear need for it, thus leaving a lot of resources underutilized – and available for overselling. The company has more than doubled in size in the last 3 years, more than a decade after its inception.
My impression is that DO is doing just fine. I get the sense that the layoffs are just to add to the profitability, not necessarily a sign of weakness. The article did mention that they were still growing revenues very aggressively.
It's one of those situations where it's a death by a thousand cuts. When you're cost provisioning, you can figure out the big stuff, i.e., we need 25 EC2s m4a.2xlarge instances with 40TB of S3 storage, and a 2TB Aurora instance. But once you get the bill, you start seeing the costs of ELBs, NAT gateways, inter-region transfers, etc. Individually, these costs aren't significant, but in aggregate, they can make up a health chunk of your monthly bill.
Plus, their managed solutions are fucking expensive. We moved a self-managed ELK cluster to an AWS-managed one and the costs went up by a factor of two.
If DO or Linode were an option to consider, we might be able to save so much money but our own customers use and believe in AWS so we develop and test on AWS. It's a bit of a vicious cycle.
DO on the other hand from my experience has been catered towards small businesses or hobbyists who simply just don't bring that much money vs even a one giant company will bring. And since DO doesn't have all the goodies of AWS, it can't really directly compete with it for those big customers.
http://calpaterson.com/amazon-premium.html
And they have a lot of lock-in too.
And they are competing with AWS Lightsail that have similar prices and offers Windows instances for people who want it.
But even though I am very steeped in the AWS ecosystem and the price of Lightsail is competitive, if I just needed a VPS I would still go with Linode. I can’t imagine AWS’s support being good for anyone who doesn’t have a business support plan.
A customer's need for additional resources should translate to a price-point question, rather than to uncertainty about what they've already paid for.
> SSDs have a limited lifetime measured in writes, and some of your customers will leave broken programs running that chew through this precious resource for no reason. If you throttle them, they'll complain.
High IO doesn't always mean an instance was compromised.
There should be clearly defined limits, and/or a clearly defined throttling policy, and the customer should have the option to buy their way out. Amazon gets this right. There should be no guessing game about reasonable use, or goodwill.
> Those pwned customers are complaining and demanding that you fix it, and the regular customers are also upset because of slowness due to the "noisy neighbor" problem inherent to all VPSes.
High CPU load doesn't always mean an instance was compromised. If you've sold CPU resources, the customer is entitled to use them. Obvious example: build servers.
If other customers experience unacceptable degradation, that means you overpromised, or else your isolation solution isn't fit for service.
Again, Amazon gets this right. They're criticised for their complex billing schemes, sometimes rightly, but it clearly makes sense to measure and be explicit about all resource-consumption. They even have an elaborate scheme to incentivise customers to tame down their CPU usage, in the form of 'burstable performance instances'.
> Anyway, I do hope they can become profitable!
Agreed. It's good to have smaller players, not just the big three of Amazon/Google/Microsoft. Competing on price-point without having the same scale, must be really tough.
Cloud resources should be a commodity. Providers should offer compute resources, persistent storage, load balancers, and MAYBE a small handful of other services.
The way Digital Ocean succeeds against AWS is by aligning itself with this idea, and competing on specialization. Forget competing with lambda; let me run my own serverless application. Don't worry about IAM; let me configure LDAP. Don't waste developer hours on service-ifying the latest NoSQL storage trend; write high-quality tutorials explaining how users can do it themselves.
And most importantly, continue to invest into open source and community resources. There are developers willing to fight the good fight against proprietary walled gardens like AWS/GCP/Azure, but it has to get easier. Configuring HA postgres is harder than paying for RDS. Paying for GKE is more feature complete than using rancher or kubeadm to make my own kubernetes cluster. This friction is an existential threat when Azure can make my problems go away for cash.
I don't know if Digital Ocean can succeed against the big cloud providers, but if they do it won't be because they made a better platform; it'll be by playing a totally different game.
My work doesn't even use Amazon, but when they went down last time, every _other_ service I was using used Amazon, so it didn't matter if I was vendored in or not, I had to just leave work and call it a day.
DigitalOcean is a solid platform and I use them a lot. I really hope they are not only able to succeed but bite into the profits of Amazon and the like.
I'm not belittling AWS' commanding market share, but they are hardly the "only real option for servers." Google and Azure are both in the leviathan league and have competitive pricing.
> people get wrongly banned from Google Cloud with no recourse all the time
[citation needed]
There have been a few isolated cases that generated a lot of bad PR. From what I've heard, there were significant changes in how abuse is handled to address the root cause.
I spend roughly $120/m with DO and have done for the last 2 years. I have a majority 5 usd droplets and 1 20 usd droplet.
LightSail may be the way to go for now.
Here comes all the migration work.. Fun :)
It grinds to a half if you use up your compute stipend and you cannot do anything about it. That's a big risk for a VPS-like use-case.
Personally, I have more instances on vultr and linode, but I still keep an instance at DO so I have a reason to keep tabs on them. I have no qualms about recommending their service to others.
Sticking to DO!
I'd be interested in the more opaque aspects of all cloud hosting i.e. Unfettered, and or, at least, Invisible government(s) access -- however there is a really dark double-edge on that privacy hope. (specifically, that there is a lot of nefarious dealings on dark web systems which humanity would be better without)
Its almost as though we also need the antithesis to the dark web. Whereby, if we were to consider the contemporary Internet as the 'Gray Web', the ostensibly-perceived-as-criminal 'Dark Web' the host of Nefarious Dealings, and a 'White Web' for things on the transparent, or at-least validated on the up-and-up.
I would propose that ALL sites with content directed at children must be regulated on the 'White Web' (looking at you, YouTube >:-[
Anyway - my overall point is that Cloud has become 'Privacy-out-of-sight-out-of-mind Land'...
So much this
I just got a nervous tick. Having done it before IAM is the killer feature of AWS.
I'm a DO employee on the tech side of the house. According to the CTO, the primary reason for this was actually reorg, not financial though that obviously played a part. Mostly managers got cut, with the goal of flattening the org. I'm keeping my ear to the ground but it doesn't seem like there's going to be more cuts any time soon at least. Apparently we're still hiring a ton this year, so that jives.
I love DO and what it stands for. Sadly, I don't use it outside of personal pet projects.
i'm a total outsider but it does feel like the walls are closing around smaller players as the big get bigger.
Google tried to charge me $1000 for a service normally costing $1 / mo because of a runaway restart issue. I had a $2 / mo "max budget" on it and we responded within minutes of receiving a budget alert. I only got them to reverse the charge after doing a ton of work to prove that my team reacted in <15 minutes, and it was their budget alert that was more than 6 hours late. They still seemed to think that was fine (?!) but because I had some great graphs and a HN-oriented blogpost ready to go, they reversed it anyways. That sounds kind of like blackmail, now that I think about it, but no more than what they're doing sounds like fraud.
on the face of it, them exceeding their max budget probably puts them in the wrong if this went to third-party arbitration
To me, this says that the shortcoming has been noted, and then a product manager has argued against implementation. If I squint I can even justify it - shutting down a website right when it gets hugely popular is not something that's easily reversed, while it's pretty easy for GCP to write off a bill for $1k.
The tutorial's budget hard limit system is actually kinda interesting as it dogfoods GCP - the budget-hit notification is sent via GCP pubsub, and a lambda (aka Google Cloud Function) then removes the billing account from the project, which shuts down the project's resources.
https://cloud.google.com/billing/docs/how-to/notify#cap_disa...
(To be clear, having to write/tweak code and deploy this myself is a suboptimal solution to the problem but it's neat from an engineering perspective.)
The fact that its mostly management is encouraging though.
[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/26/17053496/apple-google-clo...
[2]: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/apple-confirms-it-uses-googl...
A couple months ago on HN, a graph of cloud spending for the big Ns came out and Apple has slowly moved everything onto their own server in 2017/2018
Companies buy competitors all the time.
I'm inclined to trust HN and it's community to a pretty strong degree. But forgive me for simply not seeing this as anything but controlled information release.
My read of this is very different than yours: Naive IC who doesn't have optics into the actual mechanization of the business trusting the CTO fully.
I think this message from the CTO is a partial truth as they often are in orgs that aren't extremely internally transparent.
AKA I don't think the "shilling" is working if that's what they were doing.
That being said, and I can’t put my finger on why necessarily, it sometimes feels a bit like Heroku - the thing you use before you “graduate” to just using one of the major cloud providers.
Agree. But I think part of the plan with Amazon et al is that those who RTFM are locked in to the platform and therefore will be less likely to switch.
Definitely a skill floor/ceiling thing going on.
At that point, all I need from the hosting provider is a server that stays up with a network that stays up. And contacts to skip bullshit triage when the network is broken and their monitoring doesn't show it.
AWS/etc heavily reward you for investing time/money/etc but can be a bit more difficult to get started with without investing resources immediately, whereas DO is very easy to get up and running on but can be difficult when you encounter anything more complex.
It's kinda nice because you're just putting up VMs and there's not the type of vendor lockin you get with AWS/Azure/Google. That being said, DO is obviously trying to compete on that scale now. It has managed databases to compete with RDS, load balancers, and even managed k8s.
They want to be a real AWS alternative, but when you start building around these components, you get locked in. If they're laying off people, it could adversely affect startups thinking of building around their services.
And for people who think "Well I can just use another terraform provider" .. it really is not that simple at all. AWS/Azure/Google/DO are all very different. They have vastly different terraform providers/modules and you're pretty much writing an entirely new setup per each provider because of they way they handle firewalls, security, IPs, inbound-outbound, etc. The OpenStack API or any type of real standard has yet to emerge that branches all these offering. If you want "cloud" hosting (and most do because managing your own Postgres/MySQL clusters with backups and failover is a fucking bitch; especially if you're just starting out and want to get going fast), you need to realize you might need to be locked in very early in the game.
They can't. Too small to grow big.
When I worked at DigitalOcean all we could do was shake our head and laugh at how blatantly hard Vultr tried to copy what we did.
An interesting thread on the Linode forum when DO launched: https://www.linode.com/community/questions/8303/new-linode-c...
Today, Vultr offers similar service, at a lower price point, without the risk that your entire account will be suspended for thinking unapproved thoughts. This is a pretty good selling point to anyone who isn't an apparatchik of modern political and social dogma.
https://battlepenguin.com/politics/the-new-era-of-corporate-...
Free speech maximalism as a cover for raging racism (and sexism, and homophobia, etc) is what's disgusting.
Investors went into DO thinking of a AWS/GCP/Azure unicorn, but after 6 years it appears to be a small rainbow pony than an almighty unicorn. This restructuring appears to be a realization of what happened with that vision and how it panned out, I may be wrong though.
I personally love DO, I don't want to deal with AWS complexity for basic needs. Minimalism and simplicity certainly has value.
There is a difference between being cheap and inexpensive. DO is inexpensive, but high quality.
But support for more complex backend infrastructures targeted by the cloud providers, with network segmentation and load balancers and autoscaling clusters, has only started to grow in recently. There is nothing approaching any cloud provider's IAM.
IAM is a big no though.
Conversely, I also feel like Heroku could round out their offering just a bit more (ex: built in robust monitoring and alerting, better deploy notifications and healthchecks, a simple custom metrics system) and really lock in that "premium basic" tier that would be perfect for most small to medium businesses.
I've always enjoyed Heroku, but feel like I'm paying a premium because I don't know enough to do "real" cloud work.
"If I were a more experienced developer, I could run this on AWS for pennies on the dollar".
Honestly, I don't know where that sentiment comes from exactly. It's at least partially coupled with the fact that all of add-ons you would need to pay for to run a small business site add up pretty quickly, from what I can tell.
There's some friction with AWS (e.g. SSL termination) that Heroku makes incredibly easy, so I usually don't migrate until it's clear that a service is going to continue to exist in the medium term - otherwise the investment isn't worth it.
Didn't mean to imply that was a widespread sentiment, of course! Just my personal one.
If they're close to being profitable (likely given their past fund raising, and how long its been), why would they want to sell more of their business?
They may also want to finally go public. 8 years is a long time to wait for a return. And it seems to me the stock market is tired of these unprofitable unicorns doing IPOs (at the moment anyway).
I mean, it's all sheer speculation, but I think it is equally likely that Digital Ocean is having a hard time vs. just restructuring to do some housekeeping... I don't know how any 600 person cloud company survives in the same world as AWS these days.
They aren’t competing in the same space
Easiest way to compare is bandwidth costs: AWS/Azure/Google Cloud charge around $0.05/GB at their cheapest prices. DigitalOcean/Linode/Vultr charge around $0.005/GB (and it comes with a VPS bundled).
If you’re doing anything bandwidth intensive (several PB a month), one is viable, the other is not
Having used both daily for years now I can certainly see why DO will have an appeal to some over something as large as AWS.
It is way less confusing and their docs are much easier to get through. I always recommend people starting out with cloud VMs to go DO instead of AWS
Obviously DO has a lot less features than AWS or Azure, but they do add features every couple of years, and their interface is so much simpler to navigate.
I feel DO/Linode/etc are more closely related to a hosted vSphere + f5, than a "cloud provider" in the same vein as AWS/Azure.
The old mantra, change or die, is ringing true here. I personally want to see the success of DO because only having good experiences for my pet projects. Sadly no professional prod environments for me.
When you’re courting investor it’s not uncommon to look at your finances and do some work to make the balance sheet look better. You goose your margins a percent or three. But it’s kinda gaming the numbers because you can’t keep doing it without hurting your revenue. You’re putting a little S-curve on the graph of your margins and what? Hoping some people see the beginning of a hockey stick instead? If the round closes successfully you probably will get a hockey stick soon afterward. But this isn’t when it started.
They have only raised around 100M in equity investment from VCs. The last being 83M in 2015. This is the money which requires multiples.
[1] DigitalOcean Droplets > AWS Ec2 (based on our production metrics)
[2] AWS S3 > DigitalOcean Spaces (based on our production metrics)
That said, I am losing patience with how slow the EC2 instances are considering what we pay. I've got management asking increasingly-probing questions about our monotonically-incrementing AWS bill. All of this would be fine if perceived/actual performance weren't also dropping for us over time (I.e. intel spectre mitigations). I can almost feel how the AMZN profit margins are squeezing us at this point... It's almost a weekly conversation now with Azure or even a return to on-prem being brought up. "Do we move now or later? Is the frying pan hot enough yet?"
Our organization is small enough to comfortably fit onto a single 2S 128 core AMD Rome system. Why shouldn't we just lease out a half-rack somewhere local (I.e. near the developers who can care for it) and then stick a few of their systems, a switch, router and management hardware in there? This all began on-prem with us moving to AWS, and after 6 years in the cloud circus it's starting to feel like a safe place to return to. Perhaps we will just move our compute to on-prem and continue to use AWS for backups and DNS. All I know is my TR 2950X workstation can compile our solution ~10x faster than our Jenkins server which is running on a T2.Large. Imagine giving Jenkins 32 Rome cores. This is something we could actually afford if we owned the hardware.
There are also some other compelling factors for us to consider moving back on-prem. Emerging technologies like Blazor create a strong argument for keeping your workers near the datacenter. Very few businesses truly require more than 1 physical datacenter. Yes, you might also have a DR site, but you can arguably run all of the functions for 95%+ of businesses out of a single physical location. Also, having a physical location where you can hook up any arbitrary hardware means we could also pull our iOS build machine in-house and use proper high-end Apple hardware on the same local network as the rest of our infrastructure.
Just to make some conjecture here, I think that there's a difference between not liking the market's prices and thinking that the market is mispriced. Another commentator's point that the difference in bandwidth between AWS/Azure/GCP/OCI and DO/etc being a factor of 10x should give you an idea of some of the price discrimination going on.
We used to be on Linode and they were great too. The competition has really forced them to up their game and start innovating. The segment is vibrant and the cash is there. I’m not worried.
https://customerexperience.substack.com/p/find-your-dream-jo...
- Zach (Former DO employee)
> In that context, it’s notable that the company not only appointed a new CFO last summer, but also a CEO with prior CFO experience. It’s been a while since DigitalOcean has raised capital. According to PitchBook, DigitalOcean last raised money in 2017, an undisclosed amount from Mighty Capital, Glean Capital, Viaduct Ventures, Black River Ventures, Hanaco Venture Capital, Torch Capital and EG Capital Advisors.
Nothing in particular, but finance guys and VCs tend to squeeze companies dry or push hard for acquisitions. Hopefully I'm wrong here.
If not obvious this can be translated as positioning the company so it can be acquired by a larger entity for it's customer base and remaining employees.
> It says it works with more than 1 million developers across 195 countries.
I always love marketing statements like this. For sure 1 million is a large number. But what makes someone a 'developer'? It's not something defined like 'Physician' or 'Pilot' or 'Attorney' which require some type of certification to use the title. To DO (in terms of the marketing) a 'developer' is almost certainly only someone who signed up for an account and perhaps (as with other web properties) multiple accounts.
(I have used DO and was happy although I don't have a need for what they offer anymore).
We were pretty excited to become part of their partner program but after signing up we realized that if we onboarded new clients we'd have to do it all under a single account, which sadly doesn't work for us because extremely delayed payments are very common, and we'd be fronting hosting costs for everyone.
https://www.crn.com/news/cloud/google-reportedly-set-ambitio...
1. It could scare away enterprise customers who look for reliability on a much longer timescale.
2. The extent of their investment into hiring for GCP. [1]
More likely the author of that article is trying to manufacture news.
[1] https://www.geekwire.com/2019/google-cloud-single-largest-dr...
We're on GKE and with their new Kubernetes offering, I've considered switching but just haven't talked to a single person who uses it in production at work.
I have not been at the company for 3+ years so want to make crystal clear I don’t know “intimately” what’s going on at the organization. With that said, I still know enough about the business to say the following.
Been reading about developers, business owners, etc worrying about your application stability or fearing the need to migrate to another infrastructure, all warrented feelings. I want to share some thoughts as an (old)insider.
DIGITALOCEAN IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE. You don’t make $200M+ in ARR and all of a sudden shutdown. Especially as a company who has always prioritized the BEST product experience. Prioritized the BEST customer experience. If you’ve been a customer of DO, you know they go above and beyond you. DigitalOcean’s offering is still by far the most developer-friendly and delightful infrastructure experience on the market.
One of my biggest frustrations when I worked there was the lack of advanced features offered for scaling applications, I'm shockingly surprised that in the past few years they quickly launched Kubernetes, Database as a service, and Object Storage, granted all table stake stuff that AWS already has, but nevertheless has made DigitalOcean a very mature product. I'm low-key annoyed they didn't launch this when customers were yelling at me as the customer success point person, begging for all these features...anyways good for those that are customers today :)
As the co-founder mentioned above, the business has gone through several CEO changes with the purpose of preparing for an even grander expansion. So far hasn't worked as planned. When leadership changes, rockiness always occurs, and it’s up to the next CEO to steer the ship. I don't know the new CEO and have no clue if he's any good, but I wish him good luck. Layoffs happen when businesses are tanking, but they also happen when a business is preparing for another launch at greatness. I'm truly empathetic to those that were laid off today, as a fellow DO-Shark that can't feel good. Even though you are likely folks I've never met, my thought are with you.
If you are a developer, DigitalOcean will always be a place for you to incubate, innovate, and grow your business. I'm confident of that.
Yesterday I read a post where the author admitted that if people believe it's an advert then it is because they want great people to come and work in the company.
https://blog.digitalocean.com/from-15-000-database-connectio...
I think you might be referring to this:
https://dev.to/digitalocean/from-15-000-database-connections...
Same post, just on a different platform.
For context, I was responding to someone who said the article read like an advertisement for DO. To clarify, this post has nothing to do with the layoffs and was not coordinated for it. I had no prior knowledge of the org restructuring.
I’ve been working on that article on-and-off for over a year. The timing of its publishing and the layoffs are coincidental and unfortunate.
I won't counter any of the praise I'm reading; if anything this will probably validate it.
I'm on the other end of the DO equation.
My small mail server is relentlessly targeted for spam from DigitalOcean IPs - and has been for years.
In fact there are 4 networks I block (by ASN) - DO, OVH, AWS (new!) and Psychz Networks. (note: No mail from outside N.Am/EU allowed)
Forget to stop my mail server when dropping the firewall for 20 seconds? Get a ½ dozen spams from DigitalOcean IPs.
I actually like that there are hosts for dodgy services. I also get that conscientious hosts get bad customers and it takes time to overcome their bad behavior.
However from the time I 1st heard of DO until now, it's an unbroken timeline of DO being a toxic source. (note: The difficulty of reporting spammy IPs in bulk - using firewall not mail server logs - is another post)
So like a lot of orgs, DigitalOcean treats people on the inside really well. But for those of us on the receiving end of unwanted attention from DO networks, it's a rough ride.
Hope the laid off find something else and maybe better soon.
And I just got my life together, too.
We work in a volatile and rapidly changing sector of the economy.
$0.02 per GB stored
$0.01 per GB transferred.
That includes CDN too.
I haven't found a better deal anywhere. Even Blackblaze doesn't offer CDN (AFAIK).
It’s been an active week for layoffs among tech startups. Mozilla laid off 70 employees this week;
What is the cutoff age for an organization to be a "startup"?
Their documentation and simple blogs are very very useful.
netflix has done fine on AWS but that still feels iffy to me.
I wonder if health insurance companies have the same protection given Amazon's moves into the space. [0]
[0] https://www.geekwire.com/2019/amazon-jpmorgan-roll-new-healt...
I was a bit panicked by the story and, I imagine like many, Was already thinking up migration strategies to communicate to the team in the morning.
The response given by the cofounder allows me to rest this weekend, and keeps me from harassing engineering staff while off.
Thanks.
Even if I try to just go to techcrunch.com/, same thing. I only notice this because *advertising.com is in my host file on my router so instead of redirecting, I just get a "server not found" error page in firefox.
If I open a private tab, techcrunch.com loads fine. Looking at the network tab in the dev console when trying to load techcrunch.com seems to show that no redirect is made, just that techcrunch.com automatically becomes guce.advertising.com... Have I been pawnd?
The redirects are really fast, seems like the only reason @esaym noticed is that they are blocking advertising.com via their hosts file which prevents the final redirect back to techcrunch.com.
Welcome to surveillance capitalism...