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Comment by jaywalk | Hacker News Reader

I was on a flight a year or two ago where, upon landing, a woman turned her phone on and received a call informing her that her brother had passed away. She was understandably quite distraught as we taxied to the gate, and the lead flight attendant even made an announcement asking everyone to please remain seated so that she could exit the plane first.

Nobody listened.

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...the lead flight attendant even made an announcement asking everyone to please remain seated so that she could exit the plane first.

Nobody listened.

I find myself with a case of both sider-ism on this. One the one hand (the hand that really should win out), we should all be able to act as decent empathetic people with the instruction following capabilities of a 7 year old when the situation dictates. But on the other hand, when you treat (and pack) your customers like a bunch of damn cattle, don't be surprised when they act like a bunch of damn cattle.

> But on the other hand, when you treat (and pack) your customers like a bunch of damn cattle, don't be surprised when they act like a bunch of damn cattle.

I never understood this. What exactly would you have airlines do? They don’t operate on massive margins. Ticket prices are the lowest or nearly the lowest they have ever been. You should blame the cheapness of the general populace for encouraging the squeezing of every last penny in ticket prices that results in the explosion of the 28” legroom budget airline market. You’re not entitled to air travel. Don’t like the (lack of) space? Pay for business or first class where the airline actually makes a profit. In the meantime, you better damn well listen to the flight crew’s instructions.

Sure, the legroom is considerably lacking in economy class. But aside from that (a small price to pay for a trip that would otherwise take days to months, no?) what makes you call being on a flight being like "damn cattle"?

>But on the other hand, when you treat (and pack) your customers like a bunch of damn cattle, don't be surprised when they act like a bunch of damn cattle.

I don't get the gripe with leg room, unless you are oddly shaped. I'm 6' and I don't care about leg room or leaning back, because in every flight you can just push your bag under your seat and stretch your legs fully under the seat ahead of you.

I find a 5 hour flight more comfortable than 3 hour sporting event on an aluminum bleacher.

I am 6'5" and I feel that if I can fly without complaining about leg room, all you oompa loompas should be able to as well. ;)

I really feel for the folks 6'7" and over tho. I have just about an inch of slack when I sit down on a Delta flight, so I imagine beyond that would be pretty uncomfortable. Also, I resolved not to fly on Air Asia any more because they seem to leave a lot less room even than our Western LCC flights.

Yeah, tall people complaining about anything is like Rich people complaining about stuff. You won the genetic lottery, just deal with a couple of minor yearly inconveniences when you can enjoy life's other benefits. (Better choice of partners, Higher Pay and Raises, Faster career growth)

I fully agree that an airline seat is more comfortable than bleachers but how do you put your bag under your seat - there's almost always someone else's feet or bag there?

I think he means under the legs, which are outstretched under the seat in front. I do this and it works well.

That is how I read it. And that is what I do, unless I want to sleep.

In that scenario, I put the bag on the tray, bear hug it, and drop right off. Leaning forward into the bag works for me.

(Yes, I have a huggable bag, and I have one of those thin blankets I mooched from Delta years ago.)

I found that for me it depends a lot on the tilt of the seats: when I flew Southwest, the seat was ramrod-straight, and I am not able to relax. On Asian carriers, seats are more comfortable, and I was even able to fall asleep. It didn't really depend on the seat pitch, so much as the seat angle.

> in every flight you can just push your bag under your seat and stretch your legs fully under the seat ahead of you.

What flights are you taking? Usually knees are touching/almost touching the seat in front of you. There's absolutely no way to stretch your legs under that seat. You can only wiggle your legs sideways.

This in low cost carriers on Europe, so I know what I'm buying and like it this way. I wouldn't pay extra for legroom unless flight time starts creeping to four hours.

Well, no wonder you don't get it, you have a pretty typical height. 10 or 15 cm make a huge difference in terms of seat legroom, especially taking into account that it's a well-known fact that tall people have a larger leg to torso ratio, i.e., most of the difference between an average and a tall individual is in leg length.

I'm 197 cm (between 6'5" and 6'6") and not only it's totally impossible for me to stretch my legs under the front seat, but in some airlines there is just no position for me in standard economy seats that won't physically hurt. When I fly for leisure, I pay to get more legroom, or just don't go. But since when I fly for work some silly regulations prevent me from paying for extra legroom, the first day after a longish flight I typically walk around limping.

-See your doctor.

I am 6'8" and had the same issue with my employer - as a cost-cutting measure it was decided that anybody but C-level would fly economy, period.

A quick visit to my doctor (who, I should add, is 6'6" or so and as such understands the issue) resulted in a letter stating that physical discomfort aside, there was a very real chance that I might develop health issues from spending a few hundred hours[0] a year in such a cramped position - deep vein thrombosis most notably.

Problem solved. No way they were going to risk acting against medical advice and later be confronted with it.

Short haul I couldn't care less where I sit, but if I am to stay in a seat for several hours, it had better be reasonably comfortable.

[0] At the time, this was not an exaggeration.

To be fair, I've seen up to an entire plane cooperate for much less serious reasons than the one you mentioned. On budget airlines. In America.

IMO _how_ you treat the "cattle" (as a commenter in this thread referred) is the deciding factor. Some flight crews have a solid leader or two who can really command the respect/fear of the passengers' collective psyche. Like that strict but good teacher you may have had in middle school who ran a tight ship.

Some flight crews are meek and/or too drained give a flying f*.

I witnessed what seemed like a severe case of hypoglycemia in a passenger a few rows from me while stuck in a plane.

The idea that someone might die because people cannot just listen is somewhat scary.

I saw (just the seat in front) someone taken ill.

The crew left the seatbelt sign on, and paramedics in uniform boarding meant everyone got the message.

People did die on Aeroflot Flight 1492 because they didn't listen to instructions to leave their luggage behind.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/mcgee/2019/0...

There's a lot of doubt about those early reports being accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_1492#Evacuatio...

A couple of times on Air Canada the attendants asked everybody to let those with close connections leave first, and people listened. I suppose there might have been a couple of jerks who ignored the announcement but nobody could tell.

I think that's the difference. Once one person behaves poorly, others interpret that as permission to also be a jerk so it's "fair".

It worked because it was Air Canada.

It's not necessarily that they didn't care. When there is a natural action and people have a habit of taking it, then they may just forget the instruction and do what they have always done. Yes in 30s.

This is one of those stories that's seemingly low-stakes compared to everything going on in the world, but that I find unusually affecting. It's a perfect illustration in microcosm of how fundamentally despicable most people are.

Out of curiosity, what airports was the flight between?

DTW to PWM

How could the passengers have known which woman is the one they should let pass ?

She was up near the front, and they pointed her out.

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