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Comment by hoelle | Hacker News Reader

E-scootering around Berlin as a tourist this past fall was incredibly fun. Fast, cheap, and the lack of responsibility to lock up a bike or find a specific bike rental return spot is very freeing. It's such an effective way to explore cities that suit it, that I'll now factor their availability into vacation travel planning.

So I'll be sad if these die off. I just learned how amazing they are!

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I've only really experienced them in Helsinki so maybe it's a different situation than Berlin, but from a pedestrian's POV I see them pretty negatively. Firstly, people are often just dumping them wherever they like with no real regard, especially in the center you'll get loads of them just scattered close together on the pavement. The city is pretty windy so I'm not sure if that is also contributing though. Second point, and much more serious, is that people ride them like arseholes even in pedestrian areas.

Bicyclist complain about how cars drive. Car driver's complain about bicyclist. Same for pedestrians, etc. There should be reasonable rules to reduce frictions and accidents, but "my life would be easier if people taking other forms of transport disappeared" is not novel or constructive.

I don't think in general pedestrians care whether or not escooters disappear. They just don't want them on sidewalks by and large. By and large bicycles aren't allowed on sidewalks either and cars certainly aren't so I'm not sure why escooters would be.

Scooters are banned from sidewalks in almost all places that bikes are, which is reasonable. (And, for both vehicles, people sometimes break the law.) I think many pedestrians absolutely would like to see scooters banned; I've heard them say this in person. Just think of all the complaining about, horror of horrors, a scooter being poorly parked on the sidewalk. ("I nearly tripped!")

There are legit reasons to complain about scooters scattered on sidewalks especially for people who are mobility-impaired in various ways. But I actually mostly agree that lots of stuff blocks sidewalks in cities and I'm not at all sure scooters are an outsized offender.

Agreed. But as you say, scooters do not seem to be outsized offenders. And I hear a lot more complaints from able-bodied people (who also seem to complain about new construction changing the neighborhood, etc.) than I do from my grandmother.

I’d argue it’s just that because scooters are more accessible that more people who wouldn’t otherwise bike use them. Some of these people are also likely not biking for reasons like safety. Bike lanes are considered very unsafe to most people, so until we have more protected bike lanes and better culture around non-car traffic, the problem of people using sidewalks will continue.

I pretty much agree with that. More casual users in a lot of places who have never ridden bikes in traffic and aren't about to start. (And scooters are arguably even worse because of small wheels and rough roads.) So you get people with an attitude that the scooters are there to use but riding them on the road is a death wish. And they may even be right about the road part.

Add to that some sidewalks are wide and low pedestrian traffic and aren't really a problem given courteous users. But allow that and you get people bombing on narrow sidewalks with more pedestrians.

> I'll be sad if these die off

I wouldn't worry about that yet. This is merely the "trough of disillusionment" if you're familiar at all with the Gartner Hype cycle.

What I think can happen is cities taking over and designate good amount of space for parking these things everywhere. And commission the scooters as a form of public transportation. I don’t see private enterprise ever making a profit here

Exactly. They take up so much less space than the bike share bicycles.Plus, with designated areas, they can be recharged on the spot with no need for people to drive around collecting them.

In Paris scooters need to be parked in small designated areas. The apps won’t allow you to park unless you stop in one of them.

Totally agree! It will be interesting to see how this fares as a business model...

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