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Comment by Waterluvian | Hacker News Reader

Life is fleeting. Most of us here are 1/3 or more of the way done. Divest yourself as much as possible from your job. Find other sources of identity. You don't need that fancy car or to buy a boat as much as you need that ejector seat savings account.

And when you realise that conditions have evolved to a point where you're not having fun anymore (and they always eventually do), eject yourself and go spend far more time with family, friends and your other sources of identity.

Everyone _wildly_ undervalues their time.

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Life is definitely fleeting, but we (or most of us) have to work in order to live. The key is finding work to do which doesn't feel like work, but the difficult part to this (for many people but not all) is making enough of an income to live comfortably. In this case, I would say it is perfectly okay and probably a good thing if your identity and your work are one.

It is crazy to me to think that so many people spend such a large percentage of their lives doing something (usually just for money) and don't consider it to be who they are, especially if they hate the work that they do. Your work is a huge part of who you are. It affects everything about your life. It isn't something you should do just to do it or because you feel like you have to. It's a path that people should choose carefully.

For way too long I latched onto the first opportunity or idea that came along. I'm 32 now and find myself constantly wondering how much different (maybe better, maybe worse) things could have been if I had taken a step back and considered more possibilities for the future. Now multiple times per day I try to consider where each decision might lead, no matter how big or small of a decision, ranging from hours from now to years from now to thousands of years from now. This mindset is less stressful/neurotic than it sounds, and I would suggest more people try this approach. Good, well thought-out decisions lead to a better future (for everyone). Imagine that.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't take risks. Sometimes a risky path is the best possible path to take. The potential rewards should always be worth the risk, so that is something to always be considered. You usually learn a lot more in a shorter period of time this way.

Family is the most important thing in life. Material things don't matter. Sure, nice things are certainly nice to have and it can make life more enjoyable, but if you have no one you love to use these things with and spend your time with, life feels pretty empty.

Spend your time wisely, and try to do things that, when you look back on your life on your deathbed, you think to yourself, "I am so glad I made that decision."

>It isn't something you should do just to do it or because you feel like you have to. It's a path that people should choose carefully.

In many ways (mostly money), people don't have the luxury of choosing a career path that is aligned with the things they love to do.

Generally agreed, but also depends on how hard we want align our jobs with what we want to do. And a lot of times it is just laziness.

>Family is the most important thing in life. Material things don't matter.

Aye, but there's the rub.

Do you want your kids to live in a safe and healthy town with good schools and a decent home? Do you want them to have nice things and great life experiences? Do you want to be sure they can go to a college that matches their abilities?

Even if you're personally a minimalist without the need for status and luxury, it still costs a lot to give your kids the stuff that makes them flourish.

Your time is probably the most important thing you can give them however, so now you're faced with an optimization problem. How much time with family vs how much money will make for the ideal family life? It's not easy to know.

Since many of us can't find a job we love that pays enough to optimize family well being, there's a need to sacrifice one value for another. You can't always "have it all".

Ejector seat account (or financial freedom as some call it), might not be the solution. Flow is still everyone's main source of happiness.

There's the "dark horse" path that few follow: https://lsi.gse.harvard.edu/dark-horse

That project page is really short on details. I'm left wondering when did it start, what the projected "long-term" target might be, how the results are going to be compiled, and if any of the data collected so far might be available.

Any idea if there is more info somewhere online without having to email the professor?

Oh, the book is here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062683632/

I use the page as a directory for people who have gone down unique paths. Then see what they have done.

Definitely agree, and this is even more of a problem in the United States than most other western nations. Work life balance should be a priority for all human beings, and Americans have much to learn to catch up in this area.

I agree. Americans get almost religious if you propose to only work a day per week. Much better to claim that the rest of your week was already fully booked, even though in reality you just don't need the additional money.

Heh, wasn't a 20-hours work week the American ideal of the future?

It was the marketing ploy used to sell consumerism and futurism. The reality turned out that now productivity expectations just got higher, rather than everyone getting more free time.

> Americans get almost religious if you propose to only work a day per week.

That depends on the American. There is no unified American culture anymore, which makes generalities like this almost universally false. Case in point: I've lived in America all my life and nobody I know would object to only working a day a week if they could actually live off that little money.

Work life balance is a priority for most people but the issue is that everyone is only concerned with their own work life balance, rather than society as a whole. These people work themselves to death and trample on others in order to reward themselves with work life balance later on in life. Then you realize that if only everybody helped each other out and stopped trying to compete with each other, we wouldn't be in this situation. Unfortunately this is how life works and is a classic case of Prisoner's Dilemma [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

So much this. Our time on this Earth is so short. I used to love video games, but now I'm trying to make up for the time I wasted playing Everquest. There's so many experiences out there waiting to be had.

What are some experiences that you've experienced since stopping Everquest?

I eventually found the right woman, and started a family. But that could have happened anyways.

I'd say it's more that I exercise more now. I discovered that I like woodworking. And I started creating more things myself on the computer. I've deployed a few Android apps to the play store, and I discovered that I like Rust.

Why do you consider the time playing Everquest wasted? It was what you wanted to do, you did it and had fun. Now you want to do something else and that's fine.

I think that if you do something for large amounts of time, but doesn't bring you much value then it could be considered wasted. The problem is people probably don't realize it's been wasted until later.

I used to play a lot of video games, and while not all of the time I would consider 'wasted' I definitely could have used some of the time doing something else that would have made my life better today.

There is an opportunity cost to everything you do. Time is the only truly limited resource in life, you should try to use it as wisely as possible. Everyone needs some leisure time, but it shouldn't be the majority of how you spend your life.

Sometimes you can get caught up in a 'grass is always greener' syndrome. That is, imagining that your life would have been so much better had you done X instead of Y.

Chances are, in an alternate reality, you'd just be stressing about a different set of things.

I agree and I'm sure that for everything you do, there could always be something better in hindsight.

I was mostly referring to things that you put lots of time into, but don't get much long-term value in return. For example gaming grants you short-term fun, but (for the most part) doesn't give much for long-term. Money/reputation/progression doesn't mean much outside of the game/s you play. In some cases you could "sell" your account, but the amount you get would probably be less than .25 cents/hour that you put in.

I _really_ enjoyed the first year of WoW. It was a childhood fantasy come true to explore the world I grew up with. The rest of the years it was just something I knew, a routine I was in, and where my social life was. Looking back, I really wish I walked away much sooner.

Yeah, it's not that I wish I had never played Everquest. It was the amount of time that I played, which I regret now.

Excellent advice. I would also suggest reading the book "Your money or your life" by Vicki Robbin about achieving financial independence as early as possible.

Regarding the "ejector seat savings account", do I receive something like unemployment benefits when I quit my in the United States? If yes, does it matter whether I quit or was fired? Sorry if that question sounds naive, but from what I read here on HN I'm often not quite sure how the system works in the US.

generally speaking, if you quit or were fired you would not be eligible for any unemployment assistance. it's different state to state, but quit is your decision, and 'fired' is usually for something negative/bad. I've been 'laid off' - terminated but it was reported as no fault of mine - and received unemployment assistance - this has happened to me twice.

the 'ejector seat savings' the GP was referring to just means 'have enough savings that you can walk away from any situation if you want to'. GP probably wasn't meaning 'walk away from all work forever'. I can say in my case even when I qualified for unemployment assistance, it was pretty small, and took a couple weeks for me to even get a check, then another few days for the check to clear. Mind you this was 15 years ago - the situation might be 'faster' now, but... having savings now means I wouldn't care one way or another, but at the time, I had very little, and it panicked the heck out of me not having a 'regular check' coming in.

25 years ago, I was earning... about $700/week. The upper cap on unemployment assistance paid out around... $300/week (and I didn't even qualify for the full amount, IIRC). I had been earning $700/week, but then had to wait close to 3 more weeks to get a check from the state for around $200. It wasn't close to a sustainable situation.

Thanks for the detailed response. Tbh that sounds pretty hard to me. I guess for people who can easily find a new job (e.g. tech) that might not be a big deal, but I feel sorry for all the people who don't have that luxury (e.g. unskilled blue-collar worker).

yep. again, my experiences were from over a decade ago - I'm sure a bit has changed, but probably not all that much. That was from 2 different states as well.

https://fileunemployment.org/unemployment-benefits/unemploym...

I'm in a position now where I have ... probably 18 months or more of living expenses lined up that I can tap whenever I need to, so I don't think I'll ever have to be in that situation again. BUT... I still remember have $0, owing money, having no job/income. Scary as a single person, probably doubly so if you have a family to support.

I agree that unemployment benefits aren’t the metaphorical ejector seat here. But, regarding “fired” vs “laid off,” at least in California, you’re generally eligible for unemployment benefits even if you were fired, as long as you weren’t fired for illegal or malicious activity. In particular, if you didn’t care about losing a reference and burning bridges, you could get fired for poor performance and still collect unemployment. I can’t think of a plausible situation where it would be beneficial, but you could certainly do it.

thinking about it again, that's possibly closer to the mark. I did let an employee go years back, and he then filed for unemployment and I had to answer some questions from the state - did I agree, or want to deny the claim or something like that. It was for poor performance, and I was probably at fault for the poor performance on his part (not as much as he was, but still partially).

So what did you do? did you say OK to the State?

yes. I believe it caused our 'unemployment insurance' to the state to go up, but... it's been close to 20 years - I don't remember the specifics :)

I'm pretty sure you have to pay income tax on any unemployment benefits. And the state/county doesn't withhold tax, so that next April 15th you might get an unpleasant bill.

Having 3-9 months of fixed expenses money in the bank is pretty liberating. You know it's there and available, so your attitude at work becomes less about "OMG how am I going to pay my bills if I lose this job" and more about actually accomplishing something.

Your interpretation of my sentiment is spot on. Thank you.

I believe you have to be involuntarially let go (i.e., fired or downsized) in order to collect unemployment. If you depart of your own decision, including them talking you into doing so, you do not get to collect unemployment.

Here in my corner of the US (Michigan), Unemployment is granted when you can show that you were fired or laid off, not entirely your fault, and then have to continue to answer a series of questions, at specified times, designed to help you fail. One of those questions is proof that you are looking for work, not just sitting around and taking the money. And when you get the money, it's usually less than half of what you were getting when actually working. Making an error usually resolves in not getting any money for that week, and the right error means no more money for the claim. There is a state-backed job search service, MIWorks, that you have to show proof of using, but it isn't as expansive as other job search sites. But they have offices with available computers and people to help search and/or build a resume, which is nice. But the big lesson here is if you lose in Michigan, you lose.

Why not fully get invested in your job? You spend the better part of your day working so it's almost futile to divest. Instead of wasting that part of your life, why not make it worthwhile?

Because most jobs are not worth getting invested in.

This isn't advice, it's what I learned for me. So it may not make any sense for others.

You can and should endeavour to love your job and do it very well. But I discovered that my first job is where all my friends were and was where I exercised my creativity and mentorship skills. That was all great but it meant I lost a lot of identity when I walked away from it.

I have now found non-work outputs for all those things. So if one day my job makes a left turn and it no longer fulfills me creatively or I have to walk away from it, I'm still a whole person.

so i don't leave all my friends and family in my cozy town with secure, meaningful, low stress & low paying job to take that GOOGL job?

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