Uber to quit Colombia after judge says it doesn’t compete fairly | Hacker News Reader

Uber to quit Colombia after judge says it doesn’t compete fairly

bloomberg.com

92 pointswhoisjuan60 comments

As someone whose business is based in Colombia and has lived here for two years, this article and the comments section are totally out of touch.

In Colombia, the ride-sharing app market is competitive. I personally prefer EasyTaxi and Beat over Uber here.

The former works with the existing taxi system, and the latter is similar to Uber, except that the cars aren't universally 30 years old and also it's legal.

It's as if the world outside of Silicon Valley startups just doesn't exist in the minds of ~~Uber PR~~ Bloomberg and Hacker News commenters.

Maybe it's a broader part of American media messaging to imply that the world will suffer badly if a US corporation were to fall. But in an ideal, healthy economy companies should be exiting markets regularly.

I disagree with you. The article says the truth about taxis in Colombia. “Millionaire ride” has been a thing for decades, and it still happens.

The competition from Uber made taxis improve so much, that I fear a return to the norm, before Uber, where taxis would ask 50k COP for a ride that should only cost 20k COP and so on.

Also, Beat are next in line for these lawsuits.

I've been ripped off by taxis twice in Bogota, though never in any other city and never one of these boogeyman "millionaire rides"

The first time was my very first taxi in Colombia: I arrived at the airport and naively thought the guy asking me if I needed a taxi was being helpful. Little did I know, that was code for "are you new around here" and then he not only charged me 70k for a 23k ride, but also stole my harmonica and then came back 15 mins later having "found" it and asking for a reward. I was blindsighted.

The second time, the guy took me from the airport though some ridiculous route around the city and when he arrived asked me for about 3x the actual cost. I gave him what the ride should have cost, he followed me into where I was going and I just ignored him; he left.

I've had bad taxi experiences in other countries, but I concede Colombia, or at least Bogota (I lived in Medellin over a year and never had a problem) has some very unethical drivers.

OTOH, I have never had, nor heard of, any problem with a driver that came via EasyTaxi, Beat, or any of the other apps that compete with Uber.

I also think it's in the country's best interests to push foreign rent-seeking companies out of the country.

If Beat gets hit with these lawsuits my opinion will change.

It's said to see Uber go, I really liked using it in Colombia (taxis as well, when it was more comfortable for me).

I just wish that 20 year old cars would be banned from being used as Uber/Taxi cars there.

A taxi tried to rob me in Santa Marta, but luckily the girl I was with knew that if the driver asks me to lock my door and leaves the front right door open, it's a sign that he wants to rob us.

>asks me to lock my door and leaves the front right door open, it's a sign that he wants to rob us.

How does that work?

Probably by using the child lock you can't get out the back but someone else can come in the front and stick you up.

OH, man I hadn't thought of that good point.

If it was a child lock, why did the driver need to ask to lock the door?

20 year old cars did not have electronic child lock, this is how the mechanic child lock worked

Yes, but that was typically a difficult to access switch, not something you'd easily locate in a strange car. If the driver wanted to use the child lock, they'd just use it without telling the passengers (they would find out only after closing the door).

A difficult to access switch yeah, but then some cars required you to also lock that door from the inside to activate it.

Child lock isn’t electronic, it’s a mechanica switch you can only access when the door is open that prevents you from opening the door from the inside of the car. Locking the doors does nothing, if the door is going to open it’ll automatically unlock if you pull the handle from the inside.

That's not how my old car (Mondeo 97) works.

I see in the US requirements that the rear side door lock has to disable both the exterior and interior handles. Odd.

It's probably a sign that whatever reason the taxi driver used to get you to lock the door, it isn't really the actual issue. Nobody would leave the doors closer to themselves open if they had legitimate concerns.

> A taxi tried to rob me in Santa Marta, but luckily the girl I was with knew that if the driver asks me to lock my door and leaves the front right door open, it's a sign that he wants to rob us.

I'm curious, what happened next?

Nothing special, after he locked the child lock, we unlocked it, jumped out, and found another taxi. He wanted to rob us with a friend of his, not alone. Also I already knew that it's not worth going to the police, as they prefer not to do anything.

I recently honeymooned in Colombia and my wife and I used Uber in Bogotá. If I recall correctly, it was never exactly ‘legal’ but still quite common and cheap.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see another local company (Rappi perhaps?) try to enter the ride hailing market there in response. Unfortunately for taxi drivers, I don’t know if protectionist policies will do anything but prolong their slow decline.

It's been the same situation in Ecuador for a while. In some cities it's tolerated, in others the police have cracked down by calling Ubers and handing out large fines when the car arrives.

I'm sympathetic to the taxi drivers.. but Uber is considered significantly safer. There's also InDriver and Cabify but they are less popular.

And Beat and Didi. But the reputation system on Uber is better, both for drivers and for riders. I'm sad to see it go.

The case against Uber was led by a local company providing among other things an app to hail normal taxis. It wasn't just some politicians decision.

Personally I never saw the big appeal of Uber and co anymore as soon as such apps starting to come around (which is since at least 2014 in Colombias major cities)

Rappi does have a competing app called Beat, but Didi is definitely where's it at here. Significantly cheaper than Uber (assume they're subsidizing it quite a bit.)

My wife uses Didi to go to uni on days she has pico y placa and pays barely more than a bus would cost, which is kinda crazy.

My guess is maybe Didi, Beat and Waycali would face the same fate as Uber? They're all basically Uber.

I think eventually they'll legalize the apps, just a year or so ago I saw they were looking at it. The uproar over Uber leaving might be just what's needed to make some progress on that front.

Perhaps what is most frustrating is that the legal situation makes it impossible to do something like what Grab does in Asia, where a user just asks for a ride and both taxis and private cars participate as suppliers.

Uber is extremely popular with the upper classes here. I doubt all the apps could be illegal for very long.

Anyone knows any details of the ruling? This article mentions nothing about the actual court case.

It basically boils down to Uber considering themselves a tech company while Colombian law sees them as a transportation company that must obtain licenses and oblige to regulations around ride fees and such.

More detailed article in Spanish https://www.eltiempo.com/tecnosfera/apps/taxistas-demandaran...

They tried the same trick as anywhere else, then. And it is unsurprising that they failed.

We will see. To me what Uber is currently doing smells a bit like a PR stunt. Especially with all the appeal to emotion in their communication to the users and trying to get them riled up on social media.

e.g. https://twitter.com/Uber_Col/status/1215681583253991424

All while, their appeal to the order from December is still pending a decision from a higher court.

The judge ordered them to stop operating.

Did they? I honestly don't know since I don't use them.

To my knowledge the ruling to stop was mid December and the decision of the higher instance is expected within weeks.

I'm no longer sure. I'm looking at this passage:

"Así lo cree Nicolás Alviar, el abogado representante del icónico caso contra Uber ante la Super Intendencia de Industria y Comercio, que en primera instancia ordenó el cese de operaciones de la aplicación de movilidad compartida en Colombia."

Either that says the Super Intendencia ordered the service shut down, or it says that Alviar (the lawyer playing offense) caused it to happen.

https://www.eltiempo.com/tecnosfera/apps/taxistas-demandaran...

I think I agree with the Colombian judge then, but I live in a country where Uber is regulated just like any other taxi company.

Of any country I've visisted, Uber is the least necessary in Colombia. The taxi system is extremely fair and safe, albeit cash only right now. It's highly regulated and you can count on predictable, transparent, fair rates.

When I took an Uber at the Medellin airport, a guy saw me waiting at the curb and called my name, explaining that he would drive me to my actual Uber. I hopped in, and he drove me a mile or two outside the airport to a lot where all the real Ubers were waiting. We switched cars, and presumably he got some small kickback, then returned to the airport to smuggle people to their Uber. It was a pretty interesting experience; the police at the airport readily fine Ubers that pick up passengers and know the cars by license plate.

The posted article directly contradicts you. It says most Colombians are afraid to take taxis because of how unsafe they were.

I've visited Colombia several times on several cities and unless you're taking illegal cabs you never feel unsafe. The legal cabs are pretty clearly marked.

Uber could give you an extra layer of safeness as you're basically recording your ride, but that does not mean the cabs are unsafe there. Having said that, if I had to take a taxi to take me to my Uber, I will really feel unsafe.

How do you distinguish legal cabs? I live here, and locals tell me half of Bogotá's 40,000 taxis have fake taxi licenses. Nobody's ever told me you can tell them apart.

Even the police and politicians here use Uber.

The posted article has no source for that claim.

Bogota alone has ~50'000 registered taxis. That's one per 160 people living here. Still during rush hour it is quite hard to get one without waiting tens of minutes. Doesn't seem to me like something the majority is completely afraid of using.

There are plenty people worried about hailing a taxi from the street especially at night. Instead they use one of the multiple available apps that track driver, registration number and route to order one.

Almost all the people I know that exclusively use Uber are upper class and or expats.

In my experience (lived in Bogotá for over a year, visit regularly) the taxis there are completely safe. I hailed taxis on the street all the time, never with any issues. I've also personally never met anyone in Bogotá who has been afraid to take taxis.

That said, I'm going to Bogotá at the end of the month and it is annoying to see there won't be Uber available. It is pretty convenient, just for ordering with the app, the cashless aspect etc, and was a great extra option.

1) Will the taxis always take you to your destination in Columbia?

In the US at least, if they didn't want to go where you were going they wouldn't pick you up or would make you get out. That's not a problem with Uber. I've done 1hr long uber drives without complaint to out of the way places. Very impressive that Columbia is so far ahead here.

2) Will the credit card machine in the taxi always be working?

In the US at least, they always say the credit card machine is "broken". I would explain I didn't have cash or access to cash and since the machine was broken I wouldn't be paying the fare. They would then "fix" the machine. What a joke. Very impressive that Columbia is so far ahead here!

3) The taxi commission did not enforce behavior for drivers

Talking on the phone, driving unsafely, smoking etc were all common. Does Columbia have great enforcement in all these areas based on rider complaints? Very impressive that Columbia is so far ahead here!

4) If paying in cash the driver doesn't have change (which makes no sense since he gets lots of cash).

"2) Will the credit card machine in the taxi always be working?"

I have never seen a taxi with a credit card machine in Bogotá.

I am afraid to take taxis in Parque de la 93 or Zona Rosa, where the high class dancing clubs are in Bogotá, but using an app or taking a taxi in other parts of the city is not that dangerous.

Being a taxi driver is also dangerous and driving the taxi to certain neighborhoods can be a very bad idea.

Actually, you can order taxis via Rappi if you want to pay digitally

True. There's also Picapp, with which you can hail a car or a moto, which is actually crazy and fun, and sometimes faster.

The traffic in at least Bogotá does make riding a motorcycle extremely appealing here.

Someone told me Bogotá (population 7.5 million) sees 8 motorcycle deaths per day.

So many of my friends have been victims of bogus Credit Card transactions after installing Rappi that I don't want to take that risk yet.

As a Colombian (I haven't lived there in a while, but I visit my family and friends often) I disagree. Taxis in Colombia are shit and definitely not fair or safe. They drive horribly, behave violently and getting them on the street is not safe at all (some criminals use taxis to rob people).

Also, I don't know how things have changed but I remember using taxi-hailing apps or calling to the taxi call-center in rush-hour and it was always a fruitless effort. It's impossible to get a taxi in rush hour.

They also do whatever they want to do. When you hail them on the street, they ask you "where are you going?" and if that destination is not convenient to them they deny the service to you.

I have visited Colombia numerous times and have a lot of friends there. Colombia taxi is very dangerous. Crime is common place. Almost all the taxi drivers refuse to use gps and get really angry if you are using gps and showing that they are taking a much longer route.

Airports, hotels ... get kickback from taxis but not from Uber. My experience is limited mainly to Bogota, Medellin and Cartegena. Maybe the taxis in much smaller city are fair and safe. But that is definitely not the case in bigger cities.

How many taxis have you actually taken in those cities? How much of it is hearsay? I take multiple taxi rides per week in Bogota since years. In almost all cases the drivers ask me which route I'd prefer for longer distances. The only ones I had ever some degree of annoyances (trying to get overcharged) with are taxis from and to the very touristy places.

" Almost all the taxi drivers refuse to use gps and get really angry if you are using gps and showing that they are taking a much longer route."

Totally true some years ago. Last week they asked me: "which route do you prefer?"

Uber's main selling point here was transparency. Getting a cab here feels like playing dice. You either get a honest taxi driver that takes you on the shortest route or another one who chooses the route with the most traffic lights possible. Not mentioning that the device used to calculate the total fee is not regulated and may be altered. That is what i liked about Uber, i got to choose the route, or if i didn't know the area most drivers just used Google's Waze (which computes a good enough route) and i knew what the price was gonna be as long as there where no traffic jams.

No need to take a dishonest route when the taxista knows you'll pay $50+ because it's late at night, you just want to go home, and the next taxista you see if you want to wait 15min longer is colluding to also charge you $50+. It's in their best interest to just gouge you and then rush you to your destination so they can pick up the next person.

This is a fundamental competitive advantage of Uber and co: I see the price upfront.

And I don't need cash. Taxistas acting like they have no change to guilt you, the tourist, into just handing over the whole bill is all too common. Gets pretty old always ensuring you have small enough bills to pay for a taxi when you're just trying to stay out late and have a good time.

I can't really take anyone seriously saying they prefer taxistas here in latam just because it somehow went off without a hitch on their one week visit.

I've been to Colombia pre and post and Uber and this doesn't line up at all with my experience. 90% of the cases of friends I know getting robbed in South America was from a taxi.

The taxi system is not fair nor safe. They prey in your inability to properly judge the fares for your ride. I can 100% guarantee you were scammed, it's just that the low value of the colombian peso made you feel it was pretty cheap. And hell no it's not safe, double the danger if you're a woman.

"Of any country I've visisted[sic], Uber is the least necessary in Colombia. The taxi system is extremely fair and safe, albeit cash only right now. It's highly regulated and you can count on predictable, transparent, fair rates."

This is only because of Uber. They were terrible before Uber appeared.

This is the problem I see. Now taxis have no reason to be fair and safe anymore.

A common trick is a button behind the wheel, that can be activated without the passenger noticing, and it just makes the meter jump up. Well timed use can make the rate double of what it should be, without suspicion.

Very interesting anecdote about Uber drivers in Medellin. I guess it is the right strategy to avoid another Uber car burned by angry taxi owners.

Uber is essentially a Bring-Your-Own-Hardware for taxis. It's sort of "decentralizing" the taxi service, if you will. And laws seem to be antiquated for such a model. I wonder how decentralization of the tech industry, next, would play out if the laws are not written with that in mind. How do you tax a platform that offers, say, AWS but with commodity hardware? How do you ascertain data privacy laws in such a case?

If the nation weren't Colombia, would the headline have been "...judge rules..." or even "...court rules..."? "Says" is a pretty low-status verb. I don't suggest that Colombian judges should get more respect from headline-writers, but I would suggest that they should get the same respect as North American judges.

No.

I went to news.google.com and searched "judge says". While the article above was one of the top results, all the other of the top ten results were stories in various parts of the US, with "judge says" used in the same way.

It seems that to the extent the neutral verb "says" shows any respect, Colombian judges do get the same respect as North American judges in the eyes of headline writers.

I'm not so certain. A slightly more empirically valid investigation than yours disagrees [0]. Whatever, I'm glad all the "anti-PC" reflexive downvoters had a chance to do their thing.

[0] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=%22judge%2...

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