Silicon Valley geeks have their own ‘Fight Club’. I kid you not. [video]
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Lousy technique - check. Out of shape guys - check. Amazing size mismatches - check. Hard floor so that the first time someone manages a decent throw or slam, someone can break something - check.
All of these 'Fight Clubs' I've ever seen usually revolve around a couple larger guys using this whole thing as a venue for somewhat sexually charged sadomasochism with their smaller buddies. There's a reason that they're not walking in the door of their local boxing/Muay Thai/MMA/BJJ club instead...
Sure, they sound melodramatic, cheesy and sentimental talking about their fight club. But at least they're out there doing it, venting, and participating in some mostly rules-free shenanigans.
And "sexually charged" is the condescending weenie's way of simultaneously saying the participants are closeted homosexuals, and that being gay is a bad thing.
Naysayers manage to anger me and tire me out, all at the same time.
This is unnecessarily dangerous. You can go to a Muay Thai class, train up for a few months and kick three shades of shit out of each other if you want to. The difference is that with experienced teachers who will show you how to avoid injuries, the likelihood of serious accidents goes down.
Exposing yourself to unnecessary risk when you have safe alternatives isn't manly, it's stupid.
> ...participants are closeted homosexuals, and that being gay is a bad thing.
No one said being gay was a bad thing. Repressing gay feelings and letting them out through violence on the other hand isn't so great IMO.
So choosing a no-rules barred fight club versus a boxing ring is a matter of line drawing, and judgement calls.
Many people draw the line at no fighting at all, and call all boxers "stupid". Is that fair? And if it isn't, why is it fair for you to call Fight Clubbers stupid simply because they're willing to expose themselves to more risk than you?
Fight Club isn't a direct equivalent of Boxing/Muy Thai/etc. with merely added risk of injury.
Sometimes it's OK to just be stupid, and uneducatedly kick the shit out of each other, as long as cries of "Uncle" are respected. The lack of framework and authority is important for some types of catharsis.
> Repressing gay feelings and letting them out through violence on the other hand isn't so great IMO.
My point is that whenever guys roughhouse, some chronic non-participant will always call it homoeroticism, and since that sounds like a good, intellectual reason to justify their nonparticipation, other bystanders will smugly agree. It's a cheap jab.
To each his own I suppose. Actually I felt this when going from Kendo to BJJ. Kendo being a bit more traditional Japanese and regimented. It was incredibly refreshing being thrown into the deep end with seemingly little structure and to train to Cypress Hill and Slipknot.
Still, I'm of the opinion that a bunch of dudes kicking the crap out of each other in a garage is a step too far.
> My point is that whenever guys roughhouse, some chronic non-participant will always call it homoeroticism, and since that sounds like a good, intellectual reason to justify their nonparticipation, other bystanders will smugly agree. It's a cheap jab.
Fair enough.
It stops being 'ok' and safe when you have a bunch of idiots who don't know what they're doing. For example, when one idiot heel-hooks another idiot and idiot #2 decides to tough it out (thinking a rotational leg lock can be resisted like an armbar for a while), idiot #2 is likely going to spend some quality time with a surgeon. When idiot #3 decides that a crucifix is a perfectly good takedown response because they saw it in the UFC, idiot #4 is going to spend two weeks with a funny feeling in his neck. etc. etc... I can populate this list out to about idiot #20 or so, striking and grappling. There are a lot of bits of the human body that just don't fix themselves; worth thinking about before trying this stuff on.
As for chronic non-participant, well, I've been rolling around in the guard and the mount with other guys since 1995 (Judo, submission grappling, BJJ) without any gay panic. And I've seen my fair share of creepazoid 'fight clubs' where there's 1-2 bigger guys who are (a) rubbish grapplers and (b) strangely interested in rolling with weaker, smaller, prettier guys, so it's not such a 'cheap jab'.
Free climbing a rock face vs taking the stairs?
People get their kicks in different ways.
I am far more fearful when I see people randomly scrambling without any regard for their situation. I've seen people get themselves in really bad situations because they don't assess things and think about consequences.
> But at least they're out there doing it, venting, and participating in some mostly rules-free shenanigans.
As the saying goes, the only place a gunfight is romantic is in a James Bond novel.
I get what they're trying to do but there's no comparison between playfighting in someone's garage and training up as a boxer and sparring in a ring in terms of the benefits for your esteem and confidence (as well as fitness).
Also, I've done a fair bit of boxing in and out of clubs, and I'd _never_ swing on someone unless they had headgear and I was in gloves. If you know what you're doing, you understand a handful of landed punches is going to leave some decent damage on a person. The problem when you don't know what you're doing is you're just as likely to fluke a shot / not pull a punch up early enough from doing some serious damage.
Kudos in spirit, but just join a club and work with professionals ffs. You lose so many psychological and physical benefits taking this approach.
You also wouldn't hit someone in the head with your fist if you know what you are doing because you would probably shatter a knuckle, hence, historically, bare-knuckle bouts were about slowing and draining your opponents energy until they couldn't get up from heavy body blows than knockouts.
Regardless, though, in this specific example - if one of these guys throws a stray fist to the mouth or jaw (not so much for body shots because they're not exactly doing much of a job of it), its likely to break something, and if they are boxing in a training only setting or socially they're not going to be taking enough blows for concussion / brain damage to be a real issue.
I've been doing Muay Thai for many years now and beside the workout, I got much closer to my cultural Thai roots. Martial arts is more than fighting. It's about personality building, respect and culture.
'Fight Clubs' like this are dangerous for the participants. They don't know how to hit and could get injured seriously. I just hope no trained fighter is ever going to participate in such a fight and gets serious.
I've seen people get knocked out by accidental swings and hits, and people throwing up because the intense activity of a 1m30s fight was too much for them. Some nose bleeds here and there, but I've never seen 'serious' injuries, mostly because people have no kicking technique, no grappling skills (no joint locks or arm/leg bars) and telegraph punches from miles away. One dude broke his hand punching someone else on a a hard part of the jaw. I don't think it's dangerous, just stupid.
It's serious, and requires a large investment of time, in other words its hard.
This on the other hand is easy, lets be out of shape and bash each other with keyboards - yay!
The Foreign Legion's has it's own version, MDS, "Marathon des Sables" ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_des_Sables
People of all ages and from all walks of life participate in it. It's a life changing event in which you learn so much about yourself and develop deep friendships with people you've only known for perhaps a few days at most. The participants also suffer.. a LOT-between heat, physical exertion / exhaustion, and being fully self-sufficient for a week. It's a damn grueling event that definitely earns it's spot among the world's toughest foot races.
More info here at http://www.saharamarathon.co.uk/ and http://darbaroud.com/index_uk.php
It's always a balance here to go to the original technical source or a general one. I read http://www.darbaroud.com/uk/html/mds/general/uk_26mds_regula... but most might want a quick overview.
"... I'm not sure how the Foreign Legion factors into the race ..."
A fair portion of the participants are military - I know of ex Legion who have completed this.
"... would know, as I ran it in 2009. ..."
What time did you complete in? You gave the UK url where did you train to acclimatise to the heat?
I understand, regarding the legion. I'm sure there are a lot of military folk who ran it. I know of at least one US Marine who ran it. There were a number of Rugby players and French firemen who were the talk of the town that year, too!
Ugh, 54 hours. I got hurt at the end of the first day and had to walk... and got really sick during the long stage which forced me to take frequent rests during the remainder of that and the marathon stage. As for me, I'm from the United States and trained in New Jersey. Hardly the conditions of the Sahara, but you make it work :)
Here's the Flickr link if you're interested. Runner 786 is me: https://picasaweb.google.com/arthur.baczyk/ArthurSMarathonDe...
But this is idiotic.
Dancing With the Stars chicks tearing out the hair of American Idol wannabes? Sign me up!
...holy shit, re-reading that I think I just became a mainstream American tv watcher.
If you could geek fight anyone in history who would it be? :)
I'm torn between 1960s Gordon Moore or RMS (any decade).
But these are very unhealthy outlets.
I see the fight club mentality as an indication of the dysfunctional nature of modern polite (or "politically correct") society which tends to write off violence and risk as aberrations and taboos. We see this in the ongoing trend of dis-empowering individuals (often in the guise of protecting them) and shifting responsibilities (and power) to organizations and corporations. The perfect example of this is the commonplace fear and hatred of firearms amongst most urban professionals.
This subject is too large to be addressed completely in a mere post or two. Suffice it to say that I think these "fight clubs" are a trend of men attempting to ape some perverted ideal of masculinity. A twisted masculinity of violence, domination, and disrespect.
How does American football (or ruby) differ significantly form this?
I assume you mean rugby, but if not then this is the weakest contribution to the programming language wars ever.
Rugby is brutal though.
Like it or not, that's how evolution wired us. That's what used to work. I don't think it's unhealthy to have a consensual, controlled, relatively safe outlet for it.
Disclaimer: A few of my friends started something similar recently, though I haven't participated yet.
However, I've convinced myself that it may be detrimental to my long term cognitive abilities. Do any HN martial arts participants have any insight into this? Can one really expect to repeatedly get hit in the head and not pay for it, long term?
Also if you don't competet and only do light sparing you won't get hit hard in the head.
So go to you local gym and have fun!
The serious answer... I've been studying Kenpo, one of the most violent martial arts, for the past 2.5 years. Usually when you are sparring, there is a mutual level of respect. You aren't out there trying to kill each other, its not like an MMA fight on TV. It is also not like boxing, you are standing 2 feet away from each other just trading blows.
Most studios will let you sit and watch a class before signing up. If it looks like there are a couple of tough guys trying to take people's heads off, just walk away, it is not a good studio. Those types of lunk heads never last more than a few weeks in a real studio because after sparring with a more experienced student, they won't want to come back.
People get hurt, but it has never been from a shot to the head. In the vast majority of cases, the injuries are been self inflicted. A broken finger, a smashed shin, a broken toe, usually the result of poor technique due to frustration.
Or just try starting with Bjj or something where there's no strikes to the head if you're worried.
"Well we don't know without analysis... Health concerns are mostly long-term, and there's no definitive answer on how much getting hit in the head is required for permanent brain damage. Re: concentration, I'm even less convinced; maybe it's not the getting hit that is bad for concentration but the switch between mental/physical activity. Or maybe concentration improves with more adrenaline."
"Yes, for boxing champions, but even there it's hard to say what is caused by the boxing and what is caused by genetic factors. People often say 'look at Ali!' but there's no way to tell if it's really because of the boxing. But more importantly, note that I said 'how much getting hit in the head is required'. See e.g.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070502093035.ht....
http://www.bmj.com/content/335/7624/809.full
Both from 2007. First one says that amateur boxers do get brain damage, second one says they don't. (there are the top google hits, I looked into this deeper about 5 years ago; at that time there was very little research done, let alone consensus.)
Point being, the question is: does getting hit in the head pose linear risks/ I.e, simplified, do a number of cells die for each punch or kick to the head? Or does it require a certain threshold of damage for there to be any cognitive effects?
I don't compete in any sport but I've trained plenty of full contact sports over the last 10 or 15 years. I've been punched and kicked in the face a lot, with and without gloves, been knocked out briefly once, been choked out several times. Still my head/brain has taken nowhere near the amount of punishment a pro or even good amateur fighter gets; my brains gets plenty of time between trainings to recover. I can never know for sure if my training has caused brain damage, and if it did, in what form that will manifest itself (or has already, maybe), but I don't have reasons to believe it affected my cognitive functions. Maybe it did and the damage caused decreased intelligence, making me believe that it didn't :)"
I was amused hearing of fights where they beat each other only with rolled up newspapers. It beats watching tv and eating pork rinds, I guess.
Really? More than Fort Hood, Camp Lejeune, or the Louisiana State Penitentiary? What about New York City? I suspect that SV, in fact, has one of the highest concentrations of beta males in the US, and this club is an over-compensation mechanism.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=search engine battle rap
speaking as someone who DID get in a lot of fights growing up, the "it lets me know I'm still alive" thing is ridiculous; there are so many ways to enjoy life without beating the shit out of someone or having someone beat the shit out of you.
take up martial arts, or rock climbing, or an actual sport.
I want a go with Sergey. Or Larry.
Awesome