How scientists across three continents produced an Ebola vaccine | Hacker News Reader

How scientists across three continents produced an Ebola vaccine

statnews.com

230 pointsbookofjoe61 comments

I recall that another fortuitous concurrence was that when Ebola arrived in Lagos, the Nigerian megacity, a nightmare scenario was avoided thanks to the containment skills of the polio eradication team that had been recently trained using Gates Foundation money. Here's one link I found: https://fortune.com/2015/10/14/polio-surge-ebola-gates-found...

This article is an awesome write-up. I love how it walks through the process of discovery from the beginning- or as close to it as readers will bear. Its insane to think that we are at a point where we can just swap a coating on a virus as easily as I can un-solder a component from a motherboard. Its also scary as hell to think about what plagues could be created in these labs for biological war.

Like sure we get atomic power its super clean- but now we also have nukes. Tasty yummy nukes.

Where is the biological nuke equivalent here? I don't want to spread Microsoft style FUD about such exciting news but it does make me wonder what classified work is being done in Andromeda strain style labs.

I am both excited and scared as hell about what we can do these days.

The account of the German researcher pricking her finger with a needle containing the Ebola virus... Oh man, that's terrifying. It's very reassuring to hear the vaccine worked out for her.

Reminds me of the first week of my internship at Los Angeles County-University of Southern California Medical Center in July 1974. I needed to get an arterial blood gas from one of my patients — a drug addict with hepatitis and so-called "cannonball" fungal lesions in both lungs. I couldn't find the radial artery in either of his wrists, so I took the syringe and needle and moved down to his groin and tried a femoral stick. He was really obese and I couldn't feel his femoral pulse, so I tried to separate his abdominal fat pannus from his thigh with my right hand while plunging the needle into what I hoped would be his femoral triangle. The blind stick impaled my right index finger. My heart sank. I was sure I was gonna get hepatitis and/or his fungal infection, and spent the next month or so on tenterhooks waiting to wake up one day feeling sick. By some good fortune, I didn't get either of his illnesses.

I don't get it. Wasn't the needle sterile? You pricked yourself but not him, how could have you contacted anything?

Sounds like they already pricked the patient when they couldn't find a vein in the arm, maybe?

Precisely. The multiple radial artery puncture failures left needle puncture wounds.

I used the same needle for the femoral stick that I'd used for the radial artery attempts. Standard procedure then and now.

Call me crazy, but I felt like this story was perhaps a little too specific.

You can't please everyone!

Better to stay in the dark about what the average American experience is like! (?)

Haha reminds me of a story a psychiatrist once told about how he/she would generalize people's problems that happen to all sorts of patients and yet would routinely be accused of sharing a unique and deeply embarrassing story by their patients, who don't realize it but all face the same problems.

if it happens to all or just almost all or even just some of the patients it would still be sharing a somewhat private story from all of them, no? Being accused of sharing this (not so) unique story tells me it was even told to somebody that knew both people. I think you should refrain from that in this profession...

Psychiatrists have to tell these stories in order to train new psychiatrists. The only thing they cannot share is personally identifiable information. Sadly, so many people think they are struggling alone and their situation is completely unique, which is rarely ever the case.

Can confirm the thrust of this story. And I trained in the last 10 years in NYC. Modern healthcare is little different.

I don't care so much about the story, it was the level of detail you doled out about your patient, where it was, what year, etc.

July 1974?! That was over 45 years ago. Those medical records were discarded forever long before the year 2000. What period of time would make you comfortable?

When I hear what you medical guys go through, I realize how not cut out I am for it. I wish I was, because it is very fascinating and important to all of us. But I almost got faint just picturing what you described.

Would you describe your motivation to help that man as being a factor of great empathy for his situation or cold detachment from him as a person? I'm not trying to degrade him as a person, but I'm curious how you learn to cope with the realities of certain people's bodies.

Neither. It was my job, and I did it to the best of my ability. Period.

So you just learn, or have the ability, to not think about it?

Exactly. I think it's some of each.

Courage is an acquired skill.

Happy for you.

How often do hospital employees suffer these kind of accidents ?

Inadvertent needle sticks? Every now and then. I'm not trying to avoid your question or be funny. It's one of the unavoidable risks of being a health care worker.

No worries it's just a seemingly simple context I/we forget it can backfire

Did you tell your supervisor? (Not sure how easy it is to be open about accidents as a student)

No.

Were you allowed vein finder?

In 1974 there was no such thing.

Those things are basically useless. Especially on fat people

https://www.rug.nl/rechten/onderzoek/expertisecentra/ghlg/bl...

“The WHO identified burial rites for the dead as one of the contributing factors in the disease’s spread. The burial rites included family members washing and oiling the corpse, and sometimes physically modifying it for burial .. Additionally, the practice of moving the body to be buried in a different village impeded efforts to quarantine certain areas.”

It’s the cynic in me that notices that over a thousand poor brown deaths is a nonstarter for human trials to move the vaccine forward, but when the white researcher lady might die, suddenly the machinery all kicks into gear.l

It's a balancing act, the vaccine might have killed her too. Experimental drugs sometimes do that. Presumably she could understand the risks better than any layman.

One, because a new vaccine hasn't been proven safe to administer yet. And even 'proven safe' just means that the vast majority of recipients won't experience permanent side effects. You're intentionally triggering an immune response in the patient. What if you triggered an autoimmune response? Now you have a created a whole new autoimmune disease (and I dunno if you've noticed, but we mostly treat symptoms and not that well).

That said, a few people react even to approved vaccines badly. Unfortunately this fact feeds the anti-vax people, who don't seem to understand how to model risks. Just going to the drugstore to pick up antibiotics that will save your life has a larger chance of death (due to a car accident). It's more dangerous to drive to the doctor to get vaccinated than it is to get vaccinated.

Just living is dangerous. I'm running out of fingers on one hand to count the number of times I've tried to choke to death eating or drinking something, and I've got half a billion years of evolution trying to keep me from killing myself just trying to absorb nutrients.

Nothing is guaranteed. Anything can kill you. Better to get on with life rather than wait for Death to find you.

Where was I? Medical ethics.

Medical ethics has some opinions on how 'informed' a person can be to volunteer for experiments. A peer who is in your field is presumed to know the consequences of their choices better than just about anybody. So yes, a medical researcher experimenting essentially on themselves is quite different than the same person doing trials on others.

See also the doctor who gave himself an ulcer to prove that ulcers were of bacterial origin. Won a Nobel Prize for that discovery. If he'd done it on someone else he'd have been in big trouble.

> white researcher lady

How do you know she was white?

Same way I can assume the majority of the 1000+ ebola deaths mentioned by the article were people of color: the majority of people from Germany are white.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com