Intel, Lenovo spread foldable computer fever at CES | Hacker News Reader

Intel, Lenovo spread foldable computer fever at CES

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27 pointslelf48 comments

I would have been extremely negative on this Lenovo machine if it didn’t have the keyboard docking solution that it does have. I have to admit that it’s clever and practical.

What the machine needs is a way for the fully folded out display to stand itself up at a comfortable viewing angle.

One thing I’m concerned about is the hardware-first mentality that OEMs have taken to foldable designs. The whole experience needs to make its advantages and use case more plainly obvious. To that end, you can tell by the demo video that Windows isn’t customized nearly enough to make this a pleasant experience.

Windows still isn’t a touch experience that I’ve seen anyone use in the wild because the bulk of its utility is with legacy style Windows applications that demand precise cursor movement and keyboard shortcuts. Every single person I’ve seen using a Surface Pro at coffee shops has been using it in “laptop mode.”

To this end, this device should be answering the question of “Why should I buy this over a cheaper XPS 13 or MacBook Air that fits in my backpack just fine?” With this computer’s minuscule keyboard and touchpad along with a digital drawing experience that can’t be any good I’m just not sure who this product is meant to appeal to.

Products like this ask the question “What hardware can we build?” But the correct question is “How do we make something that people will love to use and want to own?”

Foldable devices are in danger of being the 3D or curved TV of the 2020s. I think the most likely outcome will be us sitting here in five years wondering why anyone thought that foldable devices were a good idea.

>You can tell by the demo video that a Windows isn’t customized nearly enough to make this a pleasant experience.

A really cool demo would have been to show off this laptop form factor by using Linux with a tiling window manager such as i3wm. Having it automatically split or rearrange panes when a fold is detected would be really cool. Unfortunately, Lenovo seems to be quite a bit behind the likes of Dell, System76, Pureism, etc in creating developer editions (read: shipped with Linux).

Absolutely! When I saw the operating system making zero changes to the lock screen as it was unfolded, zero changes when the keyboard was placed on top of the magnetic mount, that’s when I knew the product was dead in the water.

There will be a huge market for foldable digital signage. Like wrapping a digital billboard around a curved surface. But you're right that it doesn't seem terribly practical for consumers. Maybe squeezed into a VR headset?

> Windows still isn’t a touch experience that I’ve seen anyone use in the wild because the bulk of its utility is with legacy style Windows applications that demand precise cursor movement and keyboard shortcuts. Every single person I’ve seen using a Surface Pro at coffee shops has been using it in “laptop mode.”

The reality is that the keyboard is still the best way to transfer large amount of data from your head to your hard drive.

Touch in Windows is great, I love it. I use it all the time. It's another tool, like the mouse. If you took it away then I'd be pissed. And just like the mouse, it doesn't replace the keyboard.

I'm still waiting for a Surface with a keyboard that's sturdy enough to hold the screen (making the kickstand unnecessary), and perhaps holding an extra battery.

Yes, I still don't get why the 10" laptops don't come in a clamshell form factor.

Isn't the Surface Book what you're describing?

If Surface Book were the size and weight of a Surface, yes.

Eh, I'm having a hard time finding what advantage this would actually give you.

If they could instead figure out how to get two screens to butt together, that would have a far longer lifespan. I predict all these foldable screens are going to get damaged very easily, but then again it seems planned obolescence is the norm these days...

In cramped quarters, a regular 12"ish laptop. When you have extra desk space, it's a desktop with a 17" display.

Now you have to ask yourself how many times in your life you had this exact problem. And if you did have this problem how big of a deal is it for your quality of life.

It's a solution looking for a problem, at least in that form / the consumer market.

Theoretically? Every time you hear someone talking about how they dock their laptop, you're hearing someone say they want a bigger screen than they're willing to carry.

Of course, a fold-out screen isn't a panacea: A 17" laptop isn't just heavy because of the big screen, but also because of the big battery to light up that screen. And of course there's the issue of reliability.

I dock my laptop because I want a large screen (17" is tiny from a desktop perspective), a secondary screen, and a decent keyboard to type on.

These foldable devices don't solve any of these problems.

And there's the issue that a 17" screen is actually small compared to today's standards for desktops?

I'll stick with "docking" my 2014 MacBook air to my 30" 2004 cinema display. I agree with you 100%. This is not the next thing. I don't know what they are thinking.

Commute on a train. Then get to a desk.

> it's a desktop with a 17" display.

With a crease in the middle.

What crease?

all fordable screens so far have visible fold crease at the fold point

It’s a bad laptop because you need a separate keyboard to use it (typing on screen is hard). So it fails at the both usage you listed.

I started using an ipad with the Smart Keyboard and pencil to replace a lot of the things i usually use a laptop for (basic web surfing, reading). I could see this being useful if it had a keyboard cover and a Bluetooth stylus. I’m sure someone will get around to it in the next couple years.

A 17 in folding iPad Pro would be pretty cool.

When it comes down to it, they're all still novelties. Tablets have been consumption devices you use every now and then. The truth is that touchscreen keyboards just can't match physical ones. And until tablets become productivity devices, they will always be treated as novelties (rightfully so).

Every tablet I've owned (iPad and Nexus 7) could pair with a Bluetooth keyboard.

That said, I rarely bother using my keyboard anymore with my iPad. I can type just fine on the glass, although I wouldn't want to do it for extended periods of time.

I can’t help but think, when I read things like this, that laptops are already foldable. I don’t get why people want the screen to be foldable too. I haven’t seen a use case that’s gelled for me, but perhaps I’m just missing the point and it’s just about technojoy.

More screen real estate.

For example you could have a laptop screens that opens horizontally, a normally positioned keyboard, and almost double your usable screen real estate on the road. Akin to this: https://odditymall.com/slidenjoy-laptop-slides

Finally they came up with the interactive book from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (the one from the 2005 movie).

Only thing missing is the LCARS-esque interface to Wikipedia and custom case with the book cover look to it.

I could definitely use that, you have a small laptop you can easily carry around (assuming that the magnetic keyboard thingy is actually half decent) and then when I'm somewhere with a little more room I can unfold it into a large monitor and use a proper keyboard.

That seems like a good compromise.

Interesting I think it requires a lot of software changes to support such screen layouts and changes (in case of physical keyboard)

I think a separate roll-up display would be nicer. Pull out a tube, unroll your 34" ultra-widescreen display and work.

I want an actual foldable display. These seem like they are merely bendable.

Think back to the time when people actually bought paper maps and newspapers. You would take the map, find the area of interest, then fold it up so that you could see what you needed.

Obviously a display can show anything anywhere, but the idea of being able to take a large display and fold it to the perfect size for the circumstances would be pretty neat.

I just don’t see how bendable or foldable displays are in any way durable. Bending like this is one thing, but truly folding something damages it. Even simple paper starts to fall apart after a few times folding and unfolding. There’s no way a complex display device would be able to survive 1000s of cycles.

Make it out of some type of fabrics. They stand up much better to folding than paper or plastic.

I'm over here just wanting a laptop that isn't so thin it feels like it's going to snap in half every time I pick it up and has a battery that lets it run for more than 5 hours. Maybe one day the future will bless us with computers that are portable and usable.

I'm not saying you should buy a Mac - just recounting my experience.

I was iffy on macs for a long time, but after using a MacBook pro (2019 maybe?) it's reaaaaal nice. It's light and thin, but it feels like it's solid chunk of metal. Battery life is great, etc.

My personal laptop is a yoga y720 15in, and while its amazing too, it just doesn't have the same level of "polish" if we're talking about how it feels in the hand.

That definitely exists. My laptop is an inch thick and lasts ten hours with a quad core CPU and a high resolution screen.

Don't leave us hanging! What laptop do you have?

It’s a 15” MacBook Pro.

Why would I ever want a laptop with a software keyboard?

15 years ago flexible displays were probably fantasy. Now there are consumer products (Edit: ah, the laptops are concepts, but Samsung and Motorola have phones!) using them. We do really live in the future...

Flexible and foldable products are so underwhelming. At this point they seem like something being developed just for the sake of demonstrating that it's possible. If the goal is to make attractive products, they're failing spectacularly.

The big tech companies’ only advantage is that they can manufacture more complex tech. Their goal is to move what users want towards things that are hard to build, not necessarily what users would naturally want.

> The big tech companies’ only advantage is that they can manufacture more complex tech.

Only advantage? What about the already established user base, decades of experience, brand recognition, and giant piles of money? And I'm sure that I'm leaving out other important factors.

> Their goal is to move what users want towards things that are hard to build

Is there any evidence for this? Obviously there will be some incentive for this but that's not the same as being their goal.

The first generation iPhone was a bit clunky, a Nokia N95 could do so much more...

> The first generation iPhone was a bit clunky

No crowd has gasped at a foldable display the way people gasped when Jobs used his finger to scroll in the first iPhone keynote.

But it was definetely not underwhelming.

"No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."

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