Astia: Knocking Down the Hurdles for Women-Led Startups | Hacker News Reader

Astia: Knocking Down the Hurdles for Women-Led Startups

xconomy.com

24 pointswaderoush38 comments

"There’s also a lot of variety: you don’t see too many cleantech, pharmaceuticals, or publishing companies coming out of Y Combinator."

I think it's unfortunate they're playing the gender card while the real reason for their success as an accelerator only merits an "also" in the interview.

"Those invited to join are asked to pay a $5,000 participation fee and to donate a 1 percent equity stake."

Thanks, but, no, thanks.

I dunno I get what you're saying. But these stakes seem small. Consider YC gives you only ~20k for a 6-7% stake. (This is, of course, pre the 150k startup fund offer)

Both programs really offer access to tools to creating a successful business. 5k and 1% seems a very small price to pay for access to something that seems like a very successful incubator program.

Let me put it this way, if 5k + 1% were the cost of joining YC I'd do that in a heartbeat.

Regardless of the amount, I have a philosophical problem with an incubator that compares itself to an angel fund / investor and then charges a cash fee for participation. You can do one or the other, but not both.

The difference between YC and them is that first of all YC gives you money in exchange for an equity stake. Secondly, YC has proven itself many times over now to the point where I am sure people would pay significantly more than 5k if they charged it. Had YC charged 5K in Summer of 2005 you'd have seen them pooh-poohed, and rightly so.

Also, I think encouraging women to be entrepreneurs is noble, but the person being interviewed is not helping by saying that YC is wrong for women because "society doesn't support women moving for 3 months" yet. Argue for society's limitations and sure enough, they are yours [1].

“Number one, most incubators require you to be on site, at least part of the time, for several months,” she points out. “Vivek Wadhwa has done research to show that the average entrepreneur is 35 and has 1.2 children. I don’t know many adults with children that will relocate to an incubator with the Y Combinator model. Society doesn’t support that yet, so that women can up and move for three months.”

1. With apologies to R.B.

But Astia does not give you money. Y Combinator does, on top of offering everything Astia has to offer. Oh, and YC also pays (a part of) your ticket to the US.

With a bit more context:

""" Those invited to join are asked to pay a $5,000 participation fee and to donate a 1 percent equity stake. The fee used to be lower, but Vosmek discovered that the more Astia charged, the higher the caliber of the companies that applied. “When we charged enough, people really showed up and were really committed to it, and their success rate really took off,” she says. """

Of course, it's possible that charging a $5,000 fee also filters out some companies that are less likely to succeed in the first place.

$5000 might not be such a bad deal, if that money includes setup and legal fees performed by a for-real law firm. Also consultation, trademark and patent services, etc.

And 1% equity is really great. You won't find an accelerator taking less than that. However, I always think it's funny when people quibble over the amount of equity that an accelerator takes. If you succeed, that 1% won't matter. If you fail, that 1% really won't matter. :)

> which is pretty much a den of 22-year-old guys who dropped out of Stanford with dreams of becoming the next Mark Zuckerberg.

Way to belittle the sweat, blood, and tears of countless founders.

> to combat the startup world’s structural and cultural biases against women

On the contrary I see a lot of incentives for women to get involved in startups. Investors are pretty much begging to provide capital for female startup founders. At least in the IT field.

Starting up is hard, regardless of gender. Astia deserves praise for their success rate, not for their gender bias.

EDIT: Removed "fuck you" from the first line, as it was perceived as offensive by some.

Would you please try to keep the conversation here civil? The use of profanity eclipses the merit in your argument.

No that use is perfectly warranted. One shouldn't be civil with evil, nor be nice when pointing out wrongs.

As a female CEO of a start-up I kind of resent the tone the founder of this org takes. Who is she to decide what is right for all women? That's like saying all Asians _______ because Asians ______. It's not appropriate and I found many of her generalizations about female founders/CEOS to be wrong. I also cannot believe they expect people to pay. If their main thing is that it's hard for us gals to get access to capital, why on earth would they charge A 5K Fee?

All that aside, the tone in this thread proves many of her statements right. The first three comments were all anti and were seemingly written by men. What you three commenters fail to realize is that in criticizing the org you've underscored the need for something similar to this to exist in the first place. The start-up community/entrepreneurs/VCs are still boys clubs that are very hard to enter. I have less of a problem because I am not afraid of situations where I'm different than the majority, but many women do. There needs to be either 1) a more welcoming atmosphere or 2) more women-focused incubators.

I really support what Astia seems to be trying to do, but like everyone has said it looks like they aren't targeting women who are just getting into entrepreneurship. Their website kind reminds me of enterprise software (big, slow); I think my mom and Carol Bartz would buy into this program.

It's unfortunate because I really support trying to help women get into startups. Just like the whole women in science movement it's probably a good thing for humanity to get diversity in ideas. I wonder if applying to YC with a company that tries to help women wouldn't be a bad idea?

As a counterexample to the feeling that women entrepreneurs are ostracized and especially that the Hacker News crowd is an old boy club, 8-month pregnant (self-described) HN user natgordon received quite a warm and enthusiastic reception here:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2175757

Why would there be any hurdles for a Woman-led startup? As a website user, how would you even go about finding out if the site you're viewing is run by a woman? How would you know you were supposed to discriminate against it?

You can run a successful tech business for years and never speak to a human being on the phone or in person. Gender, race, religion, disability, appearance, and pretty much any other factor that can hold you back in this unfair world simply don't apply to a business running behind a web facade.

Just one example: investors are more likely to invest in people who are similar to them. Most investors are men.

Here's a recent example: http://geekfeminism.org/2010/11/29/white-male-tech-startups-...

Is that still true? Arrington and YC have been very vocal about supporting female founders, but not enough female founders get to them.

The #1 obstacle for female founders is a lack of good role models, rather than discrimination. The Social Network is a very sad movie in terms of how misogynistic it was...

"You can run a successful tech business for years and never speak to a human being on the phone or in person." That's if you don't need an capital and can make it on your own. If you're a female led start-up you're the face of everything you do. Men often presume you to be many things, but a strong non emotional business leader is probably not the first thing that comes to mind when they see you walk in the door. Even if you're wearing your power suit and power colors.

"In addition, the weekly guest lectures and networking dinners that are a hallmark of programs like Y Combinator aren't as meaningful for women, Vosmek says. 'Women are very different. We won't prioritize a networking event on our calendar, but we will prioritize something that provides business value,' she says."

So her basic argument is that Y Combinator should be providing the services that women find fun, rather than the services that make entrepreneurs successful?

I'm not sure how you got "services that women find fun" out of "we will prioritize something that provides business value".

It's also a little naive to blanket all networking events with not providing business value. The statement is a false dichotomy. It also appears to reveal a bias that things not directly related to the business or product do not provide value.

According the article, the main service they are providing to these women is their rolodex, because that's what these women need the most. And yet only a few paragraphs later she is arguing that there need to be more programs that don't emphasize networking, because women don't find that part enjoyable. In other words, seed programs should be based around what women find enjoyable, rather than what entrepreneurs need to be successful.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about the other day:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2169167

> to combat the startup world’s structural and cultural biases against women

You decide to create an incubator to descriminate against men. Try creating a nonprofit to descriminate against women and see how well that goes.

In the future, we should properly add xconomy dot com to the spam filter, if this is the drivel they produce.

The irony is, I think they are hurting women by arguing that just because YC requires moving to the valley, it is wrong for women. Obviously moving is a burden on anyone who has a family and I am one of those people. It is likely, given that women often take a more active role in families, that it is harder for women. Yet, by saying that it is "wrong for (all) women" you are only re-inforcing societal stereotypes. I see the marketing value it provides for Astia, and the P.R. value in comparing yourself to Y.C., but I fail to see how it helps women.

Agreed. It's hard for everybody with a family.

They actually don't discriminate against men. The rule isn't "no men," it's "at least some women." See the FAQ: http://www.astia.org/component/option,com_easyfaq/Itemid,751...

Unless they also have a rule "at least some men" they are discriminating against men.

It's their money so they can do as they want but they shouldn't complain about descrimination by ycombinator at the same time.

Are you serious? Because you disagree with the incubator that they are covering's policies, you think xconomy.com is writing drivel?

No, because they produce bad writing and are passing on things which are not true (ycombinator doesn't descriminate).

That is not the kind of thing we should have here.

The writing is better than many of the things that end up on the Hacker News homepage. The starting paragraph, for example, is a great example of a lead that sucks you in to the rest of the story.

Nowhere does the article accuse Y Combinator of discriminating. The closest it gets is the throwaway line about "pretty much a den of 22-year-old guys". I'm part of the YC Winter 2011 class and while the average age is older than 22, less than 6% of the founders are women - so that throwaway line actually holds up reasonably well (though I agree that the article would be better without it).

I'm quite annoyed that this article didn't get more votes, the topic it covers is very relevant to hacker news.

I'm surprised this only has 12 points, it's one of the most interesting entrepreneurship stories I've seen on Hacker News in quite a while.

I think their idea of a "startup" is different than mine. I'm not aware of cleantech or pharma companies being started by a couple of people in a bedroom or across the internet, and though new companies have to be started somehow, it strikes me as hyperbole to compare Astia and YC.

I think you're right. From the article, as one of the reasons YC is unsuitable for women:

> "Vivek Wadhwa has done research to show that the average entrepreneur is 35 and has 1.2 children. I don’t know many adults with children that will relocate to an incubator with the Y Combinator model. Society doesn’t support that yet, so that women can up and move for three months."

I get the feeling that the average YC founder is a little younger than this. Oddly, so does the article:

> [YC is] pretty much a den of 22-year-old guys who dropped out of Stanford with dreams of becoming the next Mark Zuckerberg

Given that the article apparently contradicts itself internally, it's difficult to discover what exactly is anti-women about the YC model.

From http://ycombinator.com/faq.html the average age of a YC Founder is 26. I wouldn't be surprised if that age has gone up a bit since the FAQ was written, certainly the Winter 2011 class feels like there's a healthy range of ages.

I think your idea of a startup is very narrow. Tesla Motors was a startup. Talk to most VC's and you'll find they invest a ton of money into these types of companies.

BTW most cleantech or pharma companies start as two engineering or science PHD students in lab somewhere, and these days those labs can be on different sides of the world.

Kind of, but I think we actually agree. "Startup" may just be too vague a word to use for all of these kinds of companies, but I do think it's hyperbole to equate capital-intensive startups, like pharm or auto, with bootstrap operations that make videos easier to email or whatever.

You've touched on an important point, and it's related to a fund's investment profile. Every fund has one, and Astia's and YC's profiles are very different. It's not really fair to make apples-to-apples comparisons between two funds with different profiles.

YCombinator largely funds "toy apps". I mean that not in a bad way, but in a "the next big thing always starts out looking like a toy" kind of way.

Every successful fund is managed by partners who make very conscious decisions about the kind of companies they will fund and the kinds of returns they might expect to get - YC is no exception.

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