Comment by GreenJelloShot | Hacker News Reader

Comment by GreenJelloShot | Hacker News Reader

"Unlimited PTO" is the biggest scam ever.

1) It is a lie. It is certainly NOT "unlimited" in any way, shape or form, and everyone knows it. Can you take 10 years off? How about 1 year off? How about 6 months off? Nope. "Unlimited" is a lie. There is a limit. But now it is a "secret" limit.

2) Unlimited PTO = Limited PTO and the limit is 100% determined by your manager. If you manager likes you, your secret limit will be high. If you manager does not like you, your limit will be low or even ZERO. Unlimited PTO means a manager can just refuse to approve any of your requests and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

3) Unlimited PTO means extra confusion for everyone. Instead of knowing that you can count on 2, 3 or 4 weeks vacation, you simply never know how much time you can get. And this time can change at ANY time.

4) Unlimited PTO means unequal time off for people. Some people will get to take more time off than others. It is guaranteed to be unfair and guaranteed to be gamed. Basically, it encourages people to take time off early for every excuse (instead of saving time up). Also, it encourages lying. You want to take some time off, better to claim that your kid is sick than to be honest and say you want to go to a baseball game.

5) Unlimited PTO = no privacy. Now you have to explain and justify every time you want to take a few days off. When you have 2, 3 or 4 guaranteed weeks off, you just say "I wish to take my X weeks off at these times". You do not need to explain that you going to just lay in front of the TV and binge watch 90's shows. But with Unlimited PTO, there are no guarantees. So now your manager can demand that you justify every request. Instead of notifying, now you have to beg.

6) Unlimited time off is am employee-hostile position. Imagine if a company offered a "unlimited salary". You get paid whatever your boss wants to pay you every month. It might be zero or it might be a million bucks. Would you agree to that? No. No one would. Then WHY would you agree to an unlimited PTO?

7) Unlimited PTO = No paid out PTO

I really hate this scam. Had to push back on it at previous employer and do education for the employees who thought it was a great idea... It never ceases to amaze me how some people take what a company says at face value and don't bother to look for what their motive actually is. I saw this happen multiple times and it was always painful to watch people fall for things hook, line, and sinker.

>Then WHY would you agree to an unlimited PTO?

Because not only does my employer have unlimited PTO policy, it has a mandatory minimum PTO policy.

It also has a mandatory minimum duration PTO policy.

As an employee, I MUST take at least 20 working days off per year, and among that time off there must be AT LEAST 10 working days taken off in a row, measured Monday - Friday for two weeks.

And federal holidays don't count for those 20 working days (though they do count for the two week minimum).

If I want to take two days off to binge-watch Seinfeld, I mark Thursday and Friday as "off" in our company app and my manager swings by my office and says "How's Project-X going?" and I say "on schedule" and he taps "approve" on his phone and then we talk about how I'm just going to lay around in my boxers and watch Seinfeld for four days in a row.

Of course, he already knows that Project-X is on schedule because he's in Mattermost the same as I, he just happened to pass by on his way to the cafeteria and wanted to chat about his new OneWheel and how awesome it is.

If, in December, you have not met your quota of 20 working days off, they order you to not come in for the balance counted back from New Year's Eve, not counting Christmas Day, and that is non-negotiable. They even suspend your accounts for the last two weeks of the year if you haven't met your two week obligation.

And a policy like this is a valid form of unlimited PTO but I think you'll be hard-pressed to find many companies offering this particular flavor of it.

That sounds pretty great, have never heard of another company doing something like that.

That sounds pretty standard for jobs in Germany, though. I get 30 days of vacation a year (!= sick days) that I'm required to take, otherwise my boss sends me angry mails.

Haha, unlimited salary sounds like a fun trick. You decide that month what you want to be paid. In any such company you'll end up asking much less than they're willing to pay, and get frustrated when you find that a colleague is getting away with more.

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