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You got downvoted, but I upvoted you. Thanks for bringing this up. My mom abused me when I was growing up and I was traumatized. So I grew up thinking I was inferior and then superior because I became successful. Both are bad traits that I had to delete.

Many asian kids are abused, it is disgusting what happens behind closed doors. If you had a better childhood or if you overcame your hardships, it would be really nice of you to show them some love and help them recover!

I think this is important, as a black man. Reclamation is a mechanism for ego defense for marginalized people, sort of the flip side of stereotype threat: recognizing a negative aspect of your racialization, and then flipping it into a positive even as you exemplify it. Nigger becomes nigga; a word used to denigrate becomes something no one else can use in polite company. Nerdiness becomes a point of pride; "I studied and beat you out for the job."

At the heart of it is the hierarchical and competitive nature of race in America, which does not have to be a zero-sum game but is cast as one anyway. As in learning to fight and be aggressive when threatened with violence, reclamation is reasonable, given the circumstances, but altogether unfortunate. We would be better off without the ego-protective behavior AND the racist circumstances that necessitate it.

I found this to be a very American phenomenon, as I see it less from Asians that grew up in most European or South American countries.

I also definitely see a difference in self esteem between Asian Americans that grew up in California compared to the rest of the US.

Strangely, or maybe it makes sense, the Asian Americans that I saw with the highest self esteem were Mormons!

This is one of the reasons my wife and I moved back to Asia after we had kids. Despite other issues here, we felt it would be better for them.

Yeah, I noticed it too. It does pervade the entire US but I've also noticed it's mostly concentrated in California.

Asians dating white people may come less from seeing other Asians as inferior, but from a desire to escape their own cultural trappings. Depending on how conservative (traditional) the family is, many Asian women I know prefer dating non-Asian men because it doesn't come with the same expectations from their family. They can escape the make babies, make money, deal with a mother-in-law pressures, which may be much higher in an Asian household. The micromanaging of any potential children by both sets of parents would be significantly less as well.

In general there may be less pressure to conform and perform, from their partner, and more importantly from the family, when dating a white person.

This is not true. First of all if this were true you'd see tons of asian men dating white women to escape the cultural pressure. You don't see this at all, the phenomenon is largely among women.

Second of all, the pressures you describe are a bit exaggerated. The whole mother-in-law, make money and make baby deal is not very common at all. It exists and is more common among asians than westerners but it is still very very rare.

The stereotype on asians that does have credibility in modern times is the academic pressure. The pressures on a kid academically are enormous but after college the parents are just as human as the kid and it largely dies down later in life.

Third. No asian woman will ever admit this stuff to your face. Especially, if you're white. It's such a pathetic trait that they'd have trouble admitting it to themselves. Likely they'd make up some garbage excuse like "culture."

> First of all if this were true you'd see tons of asian men dating white women to escape the cultural pressure.

Before jumping to conclusions, there’s another question to ask: do Asian men not want white women, do white women not want Asian men, or is there another reason entirely?

It's a bit of both. But mostly white women do not want Asian men.

Look you grew up in america, I grew up in america. We're not that different in what we want, and it's the same with asian women and white women.

If the difference is mostly white women not wanting Asian men, then your whole

> First of all if this were true you'd see tons of asian men dating white women to escape the cultural pressure. You don't see this at all, the phenomenon is largely among women.

argument is invalid. What's more there's no reason for you to be distinguishing between wants of asian men and women.

Your conclusion imo should just be that women of all races find asian men too weak to date. Men either don't find asian women weak, don't care, or care but in a positive way.

>Your conclusion imo should just be that women of all races find asian men too weak to date.

Who says this wasn't my conclusion? All women want to date up in terms of class. They also don't want to date black people. Black men and Asian men currently occupy the bottom of the dating ladder.

Guess who sits on top? White people. The problem is none of this is real. White people aren't the best, it's only this pathetic view point of racial inferiority that causes women to see the world like this.

Also I'm only emphasizing on asians because it's disproportionally pathetic. The inferiority complex is off the charts, I can't think of any other race that literally avoids dating their own race to the scale of asian women.

>If the difference is mostly white women not wanting Asian men, then your whole argument is invalid. What's more there's no reason for you to be distinguishing between wants of asian men and women.

Wrong. Not invalid at all. And I never ever made your claim above.

My claim in this context is that asian women dating white men is not the result of asian women trying to run away from strict asian culture. The whole point was to counter an argument made by another poster.

Asian Men wanting to date white women does not mean they don't want to date asian women. They do want to date white women but the ratio isn't as disproportionate as asian women women worshiping white males.

Also why can't I distinguish something? It's not me distinguishing anything. It's reality that is making a distinction.

It's an urban myth problem i.e "All Asian men have small dicks". For 50% this will be the truth and hence escalates to a self esteem issue. Watching porn reinforces this inferiority complex. White women don't want to date a small dick guy and avoid guys that are known to have a micropenis. African-Americans and white guys don't have this problem.

Australia here. About 20 years ago I asked my Japanese[0] girlfriend why I saw a lot of (i.e. white) Australian guys with Japanese girlfriends, but hardly any Japanese guys with Australian girlfriends. She said with a huge laugh that Japanese guys are really afraid of Australian girls! hehe.

I thought I understood that's because Aussie girls generally would seem loud, opinionated, immodest, over-assertive, disrespectful, compared with the Japanese feminine ideal, or even the masculine ideal. And Japanese males are often..more sensitive, artistic, considerate, reflective etc - not traditional Australian male virtues!

[0] i.e. Born in Japan, here since fairly young.

Women have far more pressures than men, especially Asian cultures in comparison to modern western cultures.

This has largely been eliminated in modern Asian cultures. Even among women.

Again I would say there's more of this type of stuff still happening among asians but it's a very small minority.

That comes with some trade-offs.

1. Having a spouse who does not have the cultural knowledge, similar interests, empathy or language skills to communicate with your family is an issue. Her choice to date a white man is in a sense a rejection of her own family.

2. She herself may not have the same experiences, mindsets and interests to be able to really connect with her spouse if the relationship is driven by her attempt to run away from the expectations of her family.

3. A white man and his family/friends have a higher chance of being racist and insensitive to race issues. Weirdly enough, it does not seem like racist beliefs and white supremacy preclude white men from dating Asian women or Asian women from reciprocating interest: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/opinion/sunday/alt-right-...

I've never understood this argument regarding dating outside of one's ethnic group. The effects of actual racism is one ethnic group benefits at the expense of one or more other groups. What you're describing is something else entirely.

Who's getting harmed when Asian women have a preference for white men when dating? Who cares? To each their own, no? Are you implying there's some maximum percentage of women that can prefer another ethnic group when dating, and anything above that is problematic?

Edit: I should've specified that I'm talking explicitly about their commentary on asian women's dating patterns, not anything else in their comment.

It is problematic to asians as a whole. It's pretty obvious when asians discriminate their own race and view white people as superior. There's really no argument for you here.

Definitely not problematic to white males who are dating asian females though.

Honestly, among white guys it manifests itself as Asian women being "easier" and there's nothing wrong or racist for taking advantage of it, but it definitely won't appear to be a problem from your perspective even though something deeply wrong is happening.

>they talk openly about being scared of black people because they're all criminals.

You don't think there isn't anything racist about that? You have a strange definition of racism.

I was specifically replying to their commentary on Asian women's dating preferences. I should've been more clear.

I'm not Asian or Asian-American (I'm an African-American male), but there have been studies that shown that in the United States men and women of certain ethnic groups have different levels of success when it comes to dating. Many studies have shown that black women have it the hardest among women of various ethnicities in American online dating sites, and these studies have also shown that men of Asian descent have it the hardest among men. When black women are unfairly stereotyped as having unfeminine characteristics, and when Asian men are unfairly stereotyped as being nerdy, then it hurts them when competing in a dating marketplace where many people across racial and ethnic groups unfortunately hold stereotypical views, sometimes even about their own ethnicities. I deal with this myself as an African-American male who doesn't conform to the stereotypes; unfortunately I find myself "between a rock and a hard place," where I feel ignored by women within my ethnic group because I'm a "cornball brother," yet I also feel ignored by women outside my ethnic group because I'm black. Now, not all women are guided by stereotypes (and not all men are, either), but we have to work harder to find partners who are not guided by stereotypes and are genuinely interested in wanting to know each other more as individuals and not as representatives of our gender and our ethnicity.

huh? assuming that this preference is true, clearly the argument would be that Asians are harmed. most couples are intra-racial.

It depends on the reason for the preference. If it's status or racial inferiority based (with the potential, unpleasant addition of fetishism and white superiority complex from her partner's side), Asian women and their partners suffer. All that weirdness would make a healthy relationship difficult.

Asian women suffer from 3 main problems.

1. If other Asian women are desperate to white men because of racial inferiority, many white men will develop the idea that Asian women are desperate, think that they are superior for being white and treat Asian women poorly. Asian women would also have lower boundaries and would tolerate more misbehavior from white men that other women would not due to the inferiority.

2. People in general seek commonality in relationships. Some Asian women who are severely affected by an inferiority complex may sub-optimally choose unwoke partners that they have little in common with. The lower commonality and inferiority also bias Asian women's partners and the partners' friends and family toward being less accepting of diversity than the average interacial relationship. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAJAVHzBsAg

3. If she does have an racial inferiority complex, then chasing white men would confirm and strengthen her racial inferiority complex and cause additional suffering.

Having established that some forms of that type of relationship can be harmful, the question to answer then is: how prevalent are racial inferiority and status/acceptance seeking from the Asian women and fetishism and white superiority complex from the white men in these relationships?

We don't need any complicated social or cultural explanations for the dating issue.

Women generally prefer taller men. Asian men tend to be short.

The explanation works the other way too, with men typically preferring shorter women. There are other attributes as well, such as muscle mass and the amount of body hair.

The problem here is that you're wrong. Tons of of tall asian males have this issue.

Also the explanation does not work the other way. Men do not typically prefer shorter women. It is the women making a selection preference here.

Counter example: Latino men tend to be short and date out at a similar rate to Latina women.

>> females view their own race as too inferior and too weak to date

Facepalm. Even a moderately good looking Asian female (and there are lots of them) would not have any problems finding good dates IMO, especially among well-to-do tech types.

Though this is typical: people are afraid of things and they absolve themselves of the potential failure by not even trying, because it's very easy to convince yourself that you're "disadvantaged", even if in reality the opposite is true.

You misread the OP: they're saying that lots of Asian women (in the US) view Asian men as undesirable.