Hacker News Reader

Comment by SEJeff | Hacker News Reader

I think it is the little things. One of my family members drove up to see me recently and I let them park in my garage. I was blown away when I walked into the garage with the smell of oil and gas. Granted, their car is an early 90s corolla, but still. Then I worried about oil leaking and put down a drip mat.

The thought of owning an ICE vehicle after owning a Tesla Model 3 for a year (Nov 2018 is when we took delivery) just does not sound appetizing whatsoever. My wife, who was originally a skeptic, is the one that suggested we sell our 2011 Ford Fiesta after purchasing the Tesla.

View on HN

This makes no sense to me. After driving around an extremely inexpensive Ford Fiesta (14k MSRP for a 2019) you purchase a 40k Tesla then think, "Maybe I should get rid of the Fiesta"?

So you could have easily afforded a more expensive care but thought, "na, I'll go with the Fiesta. I don't like spending money on cars" but then said, "oh hell ya, I'm buying the Tesla" because you've got 40K burning a hole in your pocket?

Because it's smelly, messy, and requires much more regular maintenance and weekly gas station trips. If you're not super cash-strapped, an electric car is a pretty fantastic value. And if you are cash-strapped, there are some great deals on used Nissan Leafs and Chevy Volts (depending on your use case) out there. End up saving the difference in money on gas and maintenance.

I'll be very interested to see how Teslas hold up after 10+ years. I own a 15 year old Audi that I drive maybe once a week. Every time I start it up, something new has failed. It could be another broken sensor, a worn rubber hose, a broken plastic clip, a short in the electronics causing a parasitic power drain, etc.

Part of it is the age, but part of it is that gas cars are designed to be driven. Letting them sit for any period of time will cause headaches. Electric cars should, in theory, be better in that regard as long as you leave them plugged in.

You're probably putting too much explanatory power in 'electric' vs 'gas'.

I'll speculate that things are failing on your Audi because it's an Audi, not because its gas powered. Go find someone driving a 15+ year old Lexus and ask them if something new breaks every time they drive. It's unlikely that they'll commiserate.

How is it fantastic value when it costs almost 3x as much?

I'm actually buying a new (used) car right now. Around the $15k mark, I can get e.g. a 4 year old 7 seater that's done 60k miles. Based on my previous car ownership, I expect to spend around $700/year on average on maintenance, and around $1000/year on fuel. In total, I can expect a first year total cost of 700+1000+1500 = $3200 of which the biggest cost is a 10% depreciation. If I were to buy a $40k Model 3 (with less seats, less cargo capacity) that had 0 maintenance and 0 fuel cost, I'd still spend $4000 the first year to depreciation alone. 4000 > 3200. How are you saving anything?

I bought a used Volt about the same age and miles for the same price ($10k-$15k). Its starting MSRP was the same as a Model 3 is now. So I have almost all the advantages of an electric car. Model 3s will get there, too, eventually (the fact that used prices are still super high tells you that people love the car... also, they've only had the cheaper trims in large numbers for the last year or so).

Your argument can be applied to any new car. Buying used EVs will be the better deal, just like buying a used ICE is a better deal than a new one. Certainly the case for me. I've spent nothing on maintenance (except tires and wiper blades) and very little on fuel (electricity is equivalent to $1/gallon gasoline).

Sure. Buying a new car, whether EV or ICE, is irrational from a financial standpoint, no matter how you look at it. The argument that a new EV makes financial sense, which was what OP said, is quite clearly untrue and people should stop repeating it.

It's in a different category. I'd think of it more like comparing a TV to a monitor. The latter is more expensive.

You're seeing it wrong. We figured the Tesla would be useful for some things but not for long trips. Since there are gas stations literally everywhere we were worried we'd not be able to take the Tesla on long drives. It turns out we can take the Tesla on long drives everywhere we want to go, so we got rid of the Fiesta.

FWIW, we got every feature on a Model 3 AWD LR sans the 19" wheels, performance, and the white interior. After tax and whatnot it worked out to around $68,000. It had nothing to do with price, but with features / functionality. We bought one of the "higher end" Fiestas (the SEL) in 2011 and I think it worked out to around $20k after all of the options, dealer mess, and taxes.

I don't think I'm seeing anything wrong and you've only reinforced my point. You replaced a car with one that is over three times the price. Go ahead and compare the vehicles but it's not much of a comparison if you don't include that fact. What kills me about people that promote Tesla is how completely oblivious they are to how unique their situation is and how outside of the norm they are. I have a very high household income, probably in the top %3, and even I know most people don't just drop $68k for a car.

I want to say something I find interesting about Tesla owners. They seem to have a persecution complex where they think every diesel pickup truck is out to coal roll them and those nasty ICE owners are out to key their car the first chance they get. I think it comes from how condescending they know they are with the, "They hate us because they know we're the future" to the "their dirty, stinking, smelly ICE vehicles". And it doesn't take very much to go from, "You're care is dirty, disgusting, and filthy", to "You're dirty, disgusting and filthy". It's the ultimate in hating someone because they're poor. You're dirty, disgusting and filthy and if you don't want to be that way you should drop the extra $40k for a new car like I did.

The sad truth is most people driving either don't think about you at all in your Tesla or if they do think about you probably think, "I wish I had that kind of money, it's kind of neat".

> suggested we sell our 2011 Ford Fiesta after purchasing the Tesla

It's a Ford Fiesta, you're not saying much here.

Very very true, but my point is that we've done about a dozen road trips now and the initial range anxiety we had has gone away.

Per https://supercharge.info/changes, Tesla opened, on average, 16 new superchargers in America per month. With the new supercharger v3 rollout it just means even more options. Our Model 3 has a range of 310 miles and there aren't a ton of places we'd actually want to go that we can't go thanks to the supercharger network. Other companies who are trying to make decent EVs still haven't solved the charging problem. EVgo is probably the best fast charging EV network outside of Tesla's, but they're only currently in California I believe.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com