Keyboard with Trackpad for iPad Pro | Hacker News Reader

Keyboard with Trackpad for iPad Pro

brydge.com

78 pointscmod74 comments

IMHO: The Macbook (the small one, that was killed) made more sense than these iPad + keyboard attachments. You had a one, slim package that was easy to use on lap and carry around with one hand (even if open). It was able to run normal software, there was no need to resort to hacking to do for example software development.

The negative thing with Macbook was the price point. It was a bit expensive to have as a second computer and on the other hand not powerful enough to be the primary workhorse. Also the battery life could have been better.

Well, a MacBook lacks touch and cannot detach the keyboard. That is the nice thing about this accessory, that it converts your tablet into a laptop, you still can use it as a tablet though. But you already name the important difference, why a MacBook (and yes, the 12" was a really nice form factor) is better for many tasks: because of the software limitations of the iPad, but they are completely artificial. One could have an iPad as usefull as a Mac if Apple allowed it.

And yes, at least I would hope that if Apple offers an ARM based Mac, it would be close to that MacBook. Though the new Air isn't that much larger.

I never used the old MacBook, long time Linux and Windows user. But then I started using an iPad for flying (was mandatory, no other platform provided), now an iPad Pro. First I used it only for flightplanning with the official apps, but since I have a keyboard for it I no longer bring a laptop and just use the iPad Pro + keyboard as my "computer" when in a hotel as well.

90% of normal people usage works fine. For coding I use remote desktop to AWS, it's actually nicer to work with than the average laptop because you get so much more CPU power and bandwidth.

I’m always curious about those who use the iPad as a terminal for coding on AWS/etc. Do you use a keyboard with FN keys (e.g. F1, F2)? This has been the main drawback for me on using an iPad to code: the attached keyboard/case combos for iOS never have FN keys. I realize I could carry a separate physical keyboard, but that takes away a good bit of the portability.

I live in vim, write mostly python, and don't need function keys. An iPad gives me a range of vim ports, shells, python environment and one really good gift client.

Also the Smart Keyboard is simply the best shape for typing on a seat-back tray table.

IntelliJ works fine without F-keys, but I prefer a bit bigger keyboard over the folio ones so you an almost normal keyboard.

Which remote deskop are you using?

Have you ever tried to process RAW pictures (including pictures from Hasselblad and Fuji medium format cameras, or Canon and Sony full frame cameras) and/or edit 4K 60p video on a MacBook? Well, me neither, because it's simply impossible. Surprisingly enough, that's what I do on a regular basis on an iPad Pro. The power of the ARM setup on that machine is unbelievable. So, there you go, that's single-handedly a reason why this kind of computer makes more sense to Apple (and to me) than an underpowered Intel MacBook. I do agree that the keyboard and trackpad setup is bullshit though, as it won't really improve the apps I use for what I mentioned above--they're built for touch, not for a mouse pointer.

As always, it's a matter of what's your purpose. As a developer you'll be much better off with a MacBook Air, for that measure, which I think is a much better piece of hardware than the 12" MacBook.

Yes I have both. It’s not “impossible”. Why on earth would you think that? It’s just slower. That Macbook Air you recommend uses the same processor as the 12” MB did.

Not quite true, the 12" had <5W chips and didn't even need a fan. The airs draw a little more and need active cooling.

I recommend a MBA if you're using it as a development machine, not for photography! :)

FWIW I was processing RAW pictures on a Core 2 Duo Mac Mini 10 years ago, so I don't believe this is "simply impossible" on any modern Mac.

Hm I was processing Fuji RAW images last night on my 2019 MacBook Air with darktable quite happily. I'm sure it's not the fastest but given I'm am amateur in the field it seems like a perfectly fine way to work.

Fuji GFX 100 Raws? Because that's what I meant :D

Ah indeed! Yes, that tiny machine may struggle.

Well, the other issue is that the Macbook was bad for document reading. I ended up carrying round it and an iPad a fair amount of the time.

I still think hinged convertables can work even if a lot of the industrial design on existing models sucks.

I agree, the discontinued MacBook is perfect for light weight travel and coding. I left mine at home for two weeks of holiday travel because I am only working on a book right now. The Apple keyboard is light weight and travels well with an iPad Pro.

BTW I could not find the weight of these trackpad keyboards, and I looked. Weight is an important feature and should be listed.

They also have reliability issues with the CPU and SSD. I got a 2016 with an i5 series y processor and 512 Gen of SSD for around $615 about a year or two ago on the used market.

I have a 2015 one. it was great form factor but eventually with the exception of web browsing I went on 2018 13" due to lack of power. my MBA 13.3" 2013 is still my fav machine from last years.

Nice keyboard that brings iPad Pro closer to Macbook Air. It seems inevitable that Apple will launch an Arm laptop form factor with iOS.

Has Apple blocked keyboard makers from using the Smart Connector on iPad Pro 3? All 3rd-party keyboards for iPP3 are using Bluetooth, which does not have a good security track record. Apple's iPad Pro keyboard does not have backlighting, media keys or good key travel.

For iPad Pro 1 and 2, Logitech made good external keyboards with media keys and backlighting, using the Smart Connector (no Bluetooth).

On iPad (regular) and Air, Apple's keyboard has a magnetic connector at the bottom of the iPad, which has the ability to remotely enable (?!) Bluetooth, even if the user has turned it off. No onscreen prompt is given to the user to let them know that Bluetooth was turned on at the time of keyboard magnetic attachment.

I don’t see the connection between Apple releasing laptops with ARM and Apple releasing laptops with iOS.

I do wish they’d do more with the smart connectors...

availability of compatible apps I think is an argument for iOS on ARM laptops.

iOS apps could very easily run on macOS with a thin compatibility layer. The CPU architecture is not related.

> It seems inevitable that Apple will launch an Arm laptop form factor with iOS.

Dropping 32bit already killed all the paid software my wife and I had, so please, Apple, go Arm soon before we buy any more. At least that way anything we buy for our Intel machines will probably be multi-arch and ready for the future.

AFAIK they make devs share code so Apple can recompile their apps to arbitrary platforms we dont know about. This means ARM too.

I have seen a comment about this on every other Apple app store / arch thread here on HN. Anybody who knows better feel free to clarify or let me know if I misread them all.

You only bought 32-bit apps?

All my wife’s Steam games (mostly solitaire type games and search-based narrative games) are 32-bit only, and so was her copy of Scrivener. Every Mac-capable Steam game I have that I checked doesn’t work, either. So yeah, we did.

Luckily I haven’t paid for any “serious” software but it was really annoying to have I install Win10 on a desktop machine again so my wife can remote-play her games. Between that and usb-c she kinda hates her new MacBook Air.

Now if only Apple would provide decent iPadOS Xcode, and ability to sideload apps (call it disabling SIP or whatever) we'll be able to actually use it.

I got this year a 2019 iPad 10.2". I even bought a logitech crayon. with the exception of entertainment and being a nice tool to learn (watching online courses, reading). it's not a computer replacement yet. and Apple's multi-tasking gestures are horrible.

p.s. - Swift Playgrounds is interesting but not only it is limited I saw some bugs with it and were able to make it unresponsive quite easily (without infinite loops or nasty coding on my end...)

God damn it. I bought the non trackpad version. Its garbage. Keys drop when you type unless you hit dead center and hit hard.

Are you talking about the Apple Smart Keyboard Folio, or some non-trackpad keyboard from this vendor (Brydge)? If you’re talking about the former: well, it’s not my experience (with my 12.9’’ anyway), I’ve been trying hard to make it drop a key for the last minute and not a single one dropped. If you’re talking about the latter, then it’s making me have reservations about the new product, which seems somewhat attractive.

which version? I have the 10.5 inch and it's given me way less problems than the keyboard in my 2019 15 inch macbook pro.

Looks very nice. And shows us, that Apple wouldn't need to bring out a separate ARM powered MacBook. If they wanted, they could have effectively had an ARM powered laptop years ago. Just by unshackeling the software of the iPads they make. My iPad Pro would be a great laptop for me, except for the limitations of the software. Proper mouse support for applications which require it would be one thing. The other would be dropping limitations about what kind of Apps are allowed on the machine the other. I fully support that Apps are sandboxed and plain MacOS would not be an ideal fit for a tablet, which is mostly operated by touch. But that doesn't mean that applications like tmux aren't allowed in a sandbox. Or full IDEs.

It's nice. It's also kind of blatant advertising. Is that going to be a thing here?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

If you have a nice developer-oriented product to sell that good hackers find interesting then by all means. In fact, check out Show HN.

Any non-Apple trackpad usually leads to disappointment. Has brydge made trackpads before or will this be one of the typical trackpad clones?

I recently purchased a Ducky One 2 SF [1], which has built-in mouse functions. After remapping caps lock to Fn: left pinky + wasd for movement, q left click, e right click, r/f scroll. The default tracking speed is low, but thankfully iOS lets you change that. Configuring accessibility stuff to hide by default, you get a “mouse” when you need it and a pretty good keyboard when you don’t.

Other features: USB-C connector. It let me swap windows/alt-option so the command key is in the right place. Light weight plastic, but it’s Ducky so it still feels well built. Surprisingly, the silent red switches bottom-out quieter than my MacBook keys.

I leave you with my PgDn macro: sleep snug, smug.

[1]: https://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/Ducky-One2-SF

I bought the logitech one, with a full keyboard. I would imagine this is similar but have the same drawbacks (for my use case). It's nice, but a bit clumsy and won't allow me to swap caps <-> ctrl. These days I'm using a very small stand and a 61 keys wasd keyboard: I can swap caps <> ctrl and even choose a dvorak layout at the hardware layer. Keybord is small enough that I can carry it with me on my backpack. It's not good for "laptop" mode, of course, but super easy to setup on any desk/coffee shop.

wasd keyboard: https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/wasd-vp3-61-key-custom-mechani...

I have made something similar by detaching the display from an old Macbook Air.

That gives me the keyboard that I love the most with the best trackpad, placed below the keyboard the way I like it, working with my PC.

I have been thinking about doing this with an old macbookpro where the display died. Any tips/guides on how to make this 'machine' be just a remote keyboard/trackpad to another machine (namely a i5k iMac)

I run macos on it, and use a fork of Synergy called Barrier. It works quite well. Now and then I have to VNC to it to fix a problem and since the wifi antenna is in the display that doesn’t work so I use a USB ethernet widget to connect it.

How do you connect the two?

Too bad it doesn't let me swap Caps Lock and Control. This fact alone makes this (and most other iPad keyboards) a non-starter for me.

That looks really nice. Kudos to them. These are nice enough that Apple could acquire them.

Too bad it’s still possible to bend the iPad Pro in without much force or pressure. This keyboard would be a big reason to consider an iPad Pro.

I ended up with an iPad mini for this reason, but the thought of an iPad mini pro would be intriguing. I hope someone might make a keyboard (maybe expanding) for the iPad mini

I have had the 3rd gen iPad Pro since its introduction and game on it daily for extended periods often held by one edge or corner, because gaming. If I'm not bending this thing, I don't know what "without much force or pressure" means to anybody.

I don't travel with it - if you're dumping this thing in a backpack or something without support and with other stuff in there, I'm sure you can bend it; I'd suggest not doing that, I keep my laptop in a separate shock case in my messenger bag for this reason.

How does this connect to the iPad, via Bluetooth or the Smart Connector electrical contacts on the iPad?

I have a 2nd gen iPad Pro and Logitech keyboard that uses the Smart Connector. Great combo. I don't really want a Bluetooth connection though.

I have a Brydge on my Pro V1 and iPad Mini 5 (the previous iteration of the Brydge mini) and they completely change how you can interact with them. Specially for the mini, which then becomes a very small laptop-ish. Very recommended products.

I like the design and would buy it in a heartbeat (particularly as my iPad Pro’s current Logitech keyboard recently had an unfortunate run-in with honey that seeped under the space bar) but it seems I’m unable to register for updates.

> it seems I’m unable to register for updates.

Same here, clicking “register now” just makes the page jump to the comments section for whatever reason. And I’m probably not gonna make an account just to subscribe to an email newsletter.

Missed opportunity for them. I’m in the potential audience of this but isn’t convinced enough to preorder, but might take another look when it’s actually shipping and reviewers have taken a spin. Now I’m most likely gonna forget about it.

I’m not a fan of the hinge’s aesthetic :(

As someone suffering from RSI, I’d buy this in an instant if it worked with MacBook Pro and connects wirelessly (so that I can rest the keyboard on my lap). Promising !

Have you tried the MS Ergo keyboard? Also check https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ you find good advice in better keyboards.

BTW: I made mine for my own tastes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/9wjpg0...

Would the Logitech K810 fit the bill, or are you specifically looking for something that would magnetically attach to an iPad but still be able to detach and connect to other devices?

I don’t use my iPad much so that doesn’t matter. Thank you for the suggestion of k810. I’ll check it out !

If you have RSI, you would probably be better served by a bowl keyboard like a kinesis or a maltron; or, at least, a split keyboard like an ergodox.

It’s been sometime since I last checked out either but the last time I checked they were all wired and Windows specific? I know I can re-map keys and all that but was holding out mainly because I need to keep the keyboard on my lap.

Definitely not windows-specific; they're standard USB, so should work anywhere.

As for holding in your lap, the cord on mine (kinesis advantage) is long enough that I can comfortably take it off my desk and put it in my lap. YMMV, of course, depending on how you have your desktop set up, but I doubt that's an insurmountable problem.

These keyboards look like they have very long travel times, it looks like just asking for RSI

Nope, long travel time is good, it means your fingers have longer to decelerate, so there's less impact. Also, what you don't see from a picture is that you don't have to bottom the keys out, which: #1, means less travel time than you think; #2, again, less impact.

It probably depends on the way one writes on the keyboard. I've seen mechanical keyboards work well for people who like to mash the keys. My style of typing is very gentle taps, hands flying over the keyboard, so the shorter the travel time, the better for me because I want to barely press the key.

I tried the "you don't have to bottom out" approach on several mech keyboards with blue switches, but never really felt it. I still had to consciously wait for it to register the click, while normally I'd be over the next key already.

Their keyboards for Microsoft Surface Pros also make them interesting alternatives to Surface Book and Surface Laptop.

> The Brydge Pro+ has been designed to bring a better experience to the iPad Pro. We've created hardware that maximizes the current functionality within iPadOS, and as accessibility features evolve and improve, the user experience will become more intuitive.

Anyone know if using a mouse/trackpad with iOS works well?

Yes. Works well in the browser, and in my case, that covers a lot of time in google docs. I believe that is the case for a lot of people. For a lot of actual mobile/tablet app, it is kind unintuitive.

> 3-Month Battery Life Per Charge * *

But... there's no * * footnote.

FWIW, I've got the one for the iPad Air and it seems to live up to that...

Does iOS support mouse cursors?

I find it so frustrating that it doesn’t yet - just the accessibility dot. I could have moved full time to IOS years ago with this one change. iPad pro and Bluetooth keyboard are right in the sweet spot of how i live and work, but I need a mouse for PowerPoint design.

Kinda, there’s this accessibility circle thing in iOS 13.

It’s “decently functional”. I mapped several of my mouse buttons for “go home”, “show dock” and “open multitasking” I don’t remember and the experience feels “better” than using MacOS with a non-Apple mouse.

where is this made? Can't find information about country of origin.

Brydge is headquartered in Utah: https://www.brydge.com/pages/about-us

For the manufacturing they don't say, but probably same as Apple: "Designed in the US, actually made in China".

I have the non-trackpad version of this, and you almost nailed it word for word. The bottom is marked “Designed in Park City, UT. Assembled in China”

Congratulations, you've invented the Surface.

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