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Comment by grawprog | Hacker News Reader

Not to sound callous, but I have trouble understanding crippling device addiction in general. I grew up constantly on a computer, I'm still on it regularly, I'm a pretty heavy phone user, but I have no problem without these things and I do other things. If i'm with people, I don't fuck around on my phone, I don't feel any sense of missing out or loss when I can't be on it. I do other things that don't involve phones or computers at all.

I just tend to look at them as tools that just happen to be handy for a shit ton of things. It sucks when I cant use them, but it's really not the end of the world and i've probably had more screen time than some of these kids or even teenagers have been alive for.

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If you focus on apps designed to live on dopamine feedback, and on users who hit adolescence with that in hand, I think a reasonable case can be made for an addiction.

It’s the « People are boring » effect, compared to even a Youtube video which is a compacted speech that constantly catches your attention.

However, relationships are also broken, and we should do something about it as much as decrease phone usage. I’m not sure which way is the causation here, but countless times I have told my needs to people/relatives (I need to avoid being constantly put down as a man, specifically, I have cleaned my room and I have a six-figure job after all) and people are wired to reject that idea and claim men as a class don’t deserve to be told positive things. I retreat to my phone by despair, not because the phone is interesting. More recently I have found far-right friends, but again, it’s just because they respect me, not because it’s awesome: It’s a palliative, not a solution.

It’s discussed in the book « The boy crisis » of Warren Farrell (former president of NOW, the National Organization for Women), but hey, people claim he is « controversial » so no-one’s gonna take it into account.

Men — need — some — love. Or they’ll find it elsewhere.

What group of assholes believes that? It's sexist bullshit.

If you're surrounded by that, it's got to be incredibly unhappy. Some thoughts (unsolicited, I recognize):

- to make space in your life for better people, start deprecating the toxic ones.

- there are lots of positive groups of men. Not always, but places to look: Dojos, Freemasons, sports groups (not necessarily very athletic groups, either).

- some independent fun helps. A motorcycle is fun.

- or start bodybuilding to get some of these assholes to fear you a bit. People compliment those that they fear.

Unsolicited, given, but HTH.

> What group of assholes believes that? It's sexist bullshit.

Yet fairly typical in modern Western society. I can’t count the number of times people have open insulted and/or discounted “males” and particularly “white males” in my presence. “Oh, but you’re different”. I have no idea how to even respond to that.

I can’t even imagine people doing the same to women or minority males 25 years ago without (justifiably) being excluded from polite society (it was happening to gay people back then, and I’m very glad those days are pretty much over, or at least much better).

I'm curious, since it doesn't match my experience: where in Western society have you lived, if you'd be OK with sharing?

Ok, to be fair, the “many times” is counting online interactions (including w/fellow devs). So it was misleading in that sense. I should have mentioned it. But it’s also happened in life with coworkers (several times) and even with my own family (a big source of discord). I can even tell you the context of some of the recent interactions: discounting political candidates because they’re “just another white male”. Probably, you will argue that’s not an insult, but can you imagine someone saying they weren’t hiring a woman because she’s “just another woman”.

And it’s usually in the form of “men” and “white men” and not “white males” although people have used those terms, too, in front of me.

As I’m sure you know, this is in the US. I’ve lived overseas in several European countries and never gotten anything like this. It’s also a recent phenomenon, within the past 5 years or so.

But the fact that you asked that question has made me reflect on how I made that assertion (in an exaggerated/misleading manner, since the “many” includes online interactions). If I could, I’d edit it. I’ll be more careful in the future when discussing this.

> As I’m sure you know, this is in the US. I’ve lived overseas in several European countries and never gotten anything like this.

Well, I suspected it, since my experience in Europe, but it's not like I lived in more than a few countries here, so I was curious. I have to admit it does rile me up a bit when people generalize the US as "the West" :)

I do wonder why that hasn't seem to have crossed the pond significantly.

Fair enough. I’ll be more careful about “Western Society”. It’s been over 10 years since I last lived in Europe (France, at that time), and I’ve not been back since (except for a 2-month stay in Turkey), so I’m not entirely use how much of this identity politics has permeated European society.

I think it’s only a matter of time before it crosses over to Britain, and then possibly on to Germany and/or Scandinavia. I can’t see France or Spain moving in this direction any time soon.

I feel you, man, I have many similar experiences with family myself. But may I suggest that the far-right comes with its own hang-ups which may not be healthy or ideal or you (e.g. they seem addicted to rage and anger, similar to the identity-obsessed left).

lallysingh in a adjacent comment has some excellent suggestions for alternative people to hang out with who aren’t biased against men. it’s a list I’ll pay heed to myself, as soon as I get some health issues straightened out.

another possibility is religious groups. Even if you’re not religious yourself, there are groups that fulfill similar roles with less of a role on religion: unitarians, etc.

I think Warren Farrell and Jordan Peterson are absolutely on the money wrt to boys and men in modern society (and for folks reading who would write them off as “alt right”, Farrell is a pretty typical liberal and Peterson is at most center-right, but most everyone has already made up their mind).

+1 to religious groups. There are lots of good ones out there!

Edit: also I'd recommend against groups with an agenda that isn't already inline with your beliefs. If you're feeling unsure about yourself, you can lose yourself to theirs. E.g., religion, politics, even sports.

There are plenty of groups out there, it's worth shopping around. IMHO the goal is to better understand and accept yourself, so stay as close to that as you can.

I’ve been using computers since I was 10 and I can agree with you. However I think it strongly depends on what you do online. I don’t use a lot of social media and I think that’s where most kids end up spending their time. If I had to guess you don’t use too much social media either?

I would consider myself a bit addicted but I don't use any social media unless you consider semi-anonymous (hn?) forums to be a kind of social media. I noticed I am addicted to mostly reading short posts and replies. If I don't, it tends to put me at unrest unless I am engaging in some other activity. I think it sort of acts as a stimulant.

I prefer to be anonymous and interact with different people everytime otherwise it is unsettling so opposite of what social media rewards.

I avoid the more common social media, but I do find myself enjoying places like HN and Reddit a little too much - my brain craves novelty and short clips to amuse me. It's easier to flip through a bunch of GIFs and JPEGs than to read a book. It's probably not the same dopamine hit as Instagram, but it's still very much there.

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