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Comment by flomo | Hacker News Reader

> I don't think engineers use frameworks because they think it makes them look cool.

I've been in this line of work for a long time, and I'll admit its a huge factor. Webdev is a very fad-driven business, and I've seen numerous technologies come-and-go where they were hot, but not they are now super not. And to some degree this is logical, because you want people who can adapt to whatever is latest-and-greatest and not just a particular platform. But when recruiting it certainly helps.

Plus the old chestnut that 50%-80% of software projects are failures, and looking out for number one means resume-oriented development for the next job. You are probably better off with a failed project on a 'cool' framework than a successful project on an uncool one.

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I've talked to several really enthusiastic developer advocates about technology in the corridor and when it comes to describing the actual product or use of the technology they tend to mumble, or wave hands, or state some product that HN would argue about (e.g. advertising). All the developer advocates I've met who promote latest tech really don't seem to like their companys product.

I would say that developers try to make it a fad to keep themselves interested and engaged in an otherwise boring, soul destroying or socially harmful job.

Don't forget that a dev may need another job in the future. And it doesn't help finding one when spending the last 2 years building an app with some "oldschool" tech stack that performs well. Most companies are looking for dev's who worked with the cool fancy stuff like react because that's already the tech stack they are using.

And what is so bad trying to make my job interesting? If it's boring I wouldn't care much about the end result. Just another 9 to 5 job then.

Nothing bad about making something interesting. You would be interested in the end result - but for developers who do this the end result is the technology they produce and not the product that the tech is being used for.

I think it would be one of the reasons why "putting devs before users" happens.

Also - look at the HN Who's Hiring threads. Almost all postings don't talk about the product or their users. They talk about the technology.

That's true, in most of the company's I worked (includes the current one) I'm not interested in the product at all. I work there because I can decide which tech stack we use, try and learn the fancy stuff and have some fun building it. Why? Because I can - I am one of the few "good" dev's out there. So many companies are hiring and they take what they can get. And I as a dev can choose where I want to work. And of course I choose the interesting one. In conclusion there are much more companies hiring then good dev's looking for a job. So the company has to make itself interesting for dev's.

But I don't think that's bad at all. With modern devices and Browsers you can't tell the difference between using a framework or not.

That was a funny bit of honesty. You should have stuck with it till then end and tell it like it is: It doesn't work on slightly older devices. Or something like: You really notice things don't work when using a slightly older device.

Jokes aside, I cant seem to find data on the age distribution of interneted computers.

You are the kind of person who believes that every app should support ie8 and even before that, right? Don't forget to limit your 500ps car to drive only 25mph...

It isn't your fault they hire people who don't care about the product. That you pick a tech stack that inspires you is a logical [and predictable] follow up.

I think a lot of people still think things are/should be something like: First the product, 2nd the customer, 3rd the company, 4th the investors and the employees last.

But the reality is often more like: First the investors, 2nd the employees, 3rd the company, 4th the customer, and oh we need some kind of product too!

You get the open floor plan so that the investor can see lots of people working. A nice ping pong table to illustrate the lack of employee equity. A fun tech stack to attract and keep the employees happy. Large expensive chunks of plastic with the company name on it. Great customer service to help the customer with their problems and lastly a product that doesn't work.

Again, I'm not suggesting any of this is your fault. On the contrary, one cant teach passion. You either care about the product or you don't.

> That's true, in most of the company's I worked (includes the current one) I'm not interested in the product at all.

This way of thinking would honestly have never occurred to me. If I'm really not interested in the product a company produces, then I don't think that I'm qualified to work there.

> With modern devices and Browsers you can't tell the difference between using a framework or not.

I sure can!

> Webdev is a very fad-driven business

I think it is like this because it is kind of awful on so many dimensions, and we have hacked the browser to do all sorts of things. It's kind of amazing, but now we have to deal with it.

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