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Comment by decasteve | Hacker News Reader

> 7. Review your cloud sync

I used an Android device for a short while a few years ago. I disabled all sync functionality and would back up to my own storage device.

After an OS update, all of the sync functionality was automatically enabled and everything on the device was uploaded to Google’s services anyway. So I deleted everything that was uploaded, then deleted my google account, and bought an iPhone and swore to never use a google product again — and I haven’t.

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While it is undeniably true that Android, just as any other networked product by Google, is a nightmare with respect to privacy, I hardly believe that Apple doesn't collect any user data. They very likely want to remain the #1 solution for wealthy people who don't want their communications to be bugged, and they're surely much much better than Google in that context, still I don't trust them because their product is even more closed than Android, therefore impossible to audit just as Android.

Apple's incentives as a product business align much better with user privacy than Google's incentives as an ad business though.

To put it more blunt: risking your rep for some additional amount per user isn't worth it, if your margin is already a non-trivial multiple of said amount.

That's not strictly true, as Apple's incentives as a business are to prevent user choice, regardless of the privacy benefits of the choice. Therefore if you believe, say, that browser engine choice can help privacy (both individually at a micro level and for the ecosystem at a macro level), then Apple's incentives as a product business align much worse with user privacy on that point. The same can be said for other Apple incentives such as kowtowing to some anti-privacy regimes, disallowing advanced software, etc. Treating this as black and white is just wrong.

And yet Apple's OS collects more information than Google's. You cannot even write an app for your device without handing over banking details like a credit card. You cannot get your location without also sending that location to Apple. If you're in China, everything in your iCloud is accessible by the Chinese government.

Edit: this is not whataboutism. People are seriously suggesting using Apple devices instead for privacy, when doing so is worse, as I have shown. If you believe anything I've said is false, go ahead and point it out. I've stated these claims multiple times on Hacker News and not once have they been refuted, so I'll be happy to get corrections before I state them again.

A lot of what you just claimed is completely false or misleading, given your rants throughout this thread though I doubt it’s worth time to enumerate it. You seem very intent to distract the discussions for this post towards Apple and whataboutisms.

Now that I can respond, this is not whataboutism. People are seriously suggesting using Apple devices instead for privacy, when doing so is worse, as I have shown. If you believe anything I've said is false, go ahead and point it out. I've stated these claims multiple times on Hacker News and not once have they been refuted, so I'll be happy to get corrections before I state them again.

This is so infuriating. sadly the majority of people have no idea just how deep the rabbit whole goes. They and their data are exploited at every turn for the gain of Google.

Everything on the Internet has to be "free," so that's the business model.

Not really in this case: I paid money for my smartphone. The manufacturer might not have paid anything for Android, but that's a problem of Google spending insane amounts of money outcompeting and destroying the entire mobile OS market, not a problem of me not wanting to pay.

You paid money for phone hardware. You didn't pay for the OS on top of it, or the additional software you got via the play store.

If it's anything like the Window's tax on consumer PCs, that would add $50 to the price tag. And then another 20 for McAfee anti-virus, and pay-per-month fees for Adobe and Office365, etc.

> After an OS update, all of the sync functionality was automatically enabled and everything on the device was uploaded to Google’s services anyway.

Which carrier and phone manufacturer if you don't mind my ask? I've never had Google reset my sync settings but I've kept the same phone manufacturer (LG) for years. I've been an Android user since 2009 and I've never had my settings tampered with, the only exception was when Android added silent mode that made it so your alarms wouldn't go off, that sure pissed off a lot of people I'm sure.

A friend of mine had that happen with iOS (iCloud sync settings that she disabled changed after an OS update) so I wouldn't feel safe from this kind of trickery after the OS switch.

He doesn't mention turning off Apple sync. It seems like he/she is ok with their data being owned by Apple and not by Google. Confuses me as to why they think Apple is more private.

Because unlike Google, Apple does not generate the vast bulk of its revenue from selling your private data to advertisers, so Apple does not have an extensive history of violating your privacy for profit.

Yeah, they generate revenue by locking you into an expensive ecosystem which has zero transparency, so we actually don't know what Apple is doing.

We don't know if Apple is violating our privacy. Who knows who Apple is selling your data to.

This information would have already been leaked by an Apple insider or a third party which pay Apple for user metadata. As neither have occurred, I'm inclined to believe they do not sell their user's data.

Google on the other hand have an entire business model which sells your data. I know who I'd trust with my data and TBH, I think you're just throwing stones without understanding your own subconscious bias against Apple.

So you are okay with everything being synced to Apple? What's the difference? Why do you think Apple respects your privacy more?

Because Apple isn’t an advertising company and doesn’t need to. They also at least come out and say they won’t share your data with 3rd parties, except as needed (this has caused some problems with Siri stuff in the past).

Google is an advertising company first. And advertisers will pay a lot more for that data.

> Because Apple isn’t an advertising company and doesn’t need to

While I agree, just because they don't need to doesn't mean they won't.

Google didn't need to invent gmail and get everyone sucked in to a free product, and then start reading emails to advertise, but it did.

I know it's not exactly apples-to-apples (no pun intended) but I wouldn't put all my faith in a company not doing something egregious for profit because they don't _need_ to

With Apple I trust, but verify. Apple actually has in it's EULA terms that it won't share the data. I know they can easily change it, but that's a good sign.

With Apple's icloud services, outside of a small free tier, you actually pay them money.

With Google, the only real revenue they have is from ads.

I wonder if this kind of behaviour is illegal under GDPR. At least it should be in my opinion.

Syncing contacts and pictures without opt-in sounds very illegal under GDPR.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at, but these are privacy settings that people choose, and they shouldn’t be constantly worrying if an update will violate their privacy.

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