The 'folly' of buying a fixer-upper yacht
abc.net.au
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OMG they bought a wood boat, the only way to keep a wood boat is to start a foundation or be a billionaire.
absolutely. On the other hand, buying an old, requiring a lot of restoration/etc, boat is practically the only way to get such a beautiful wooden boat as they don't build them anymore for a couple of reasons:
1. those beautiful graceful lines were designed to "hack" the mid-20th-century CCA racing rules - the short waterline of a free standing boat becomes longer when the boat is heeling during actual sailing. Half a century ago the IOR rules de-facto replaced CCA and thus all those fat boats of 197x-198x which in turn seem to be more and more replaced during the last couple decades by the boats designed more for the downwind planing.
2. the introduction of mass produced fiberglass resin boats in 196x completely killed the economics of wooden boats at both stages - building as well as maintenance.
A mildly related sidenote just for visual pleasure for anybody who loves the boats - i think it is just magnificient how smooth and fast this Draken is sailing https://youtu.be/XORSpUUy0lQ?t=168
Thank you for posting this.
So, the secret to owning a wooden boat is having a son who loves sailing and boat maintenance.
- Outboard $1200 NZD
- Insurance (for marina) $300
- $140 NZD VHF
- $240 NZD life jackets
- $1560 NZD marina
So the boat itself is only half the coast itself... I still think we've got off quite cheaply and provided us with tons of fun.
Two good lessons. (1) Restorations are almost always far more expensive than just buying a similar boat that has been well maintained. (2) Group boat ownership is often a good idea, you can share the finances and no one actually ends up using the boat as often as they think they will.
That works well if you're all the type to just putt in a circle outside the harbor. If some of the owners are the type to beat the vessel up doing what it was intended to do and more and some of them aren't you will wind up with hard feelings when things break.
If you are trying to bounce off 6ft surf (emphasis on "off" rather than "through" in a tri-hull) that will eventually come back to bite you in the form of tearing the vessel apart at the seams. If you are constantly beaching something with a deep V you can only go so long between events where the prop/lower unit unexpectedly finds the ground (and eventually that will get expensive). So you either share the cost of these repairs with the understanding that that's just the cost of doing business (because simply based on your varying use somebody will have to be more abuse to the vessel) or you all get your own boats that fit your use cases.
The lead keel, some of the decking and hardware, some of the side planking, etc. are all being kept. Certainly most of the ship is being replaced, but not all.
Relaxing, engaging, fascinating, full of subtle wit, hard-earned knowledge. My wife thinks it is utterly boring, I could watch it for hours at a time (and have).
When I was young, during the 1980's it seemed like every young person spent their free time sailing and boating. Numerous sailing clubs had weekend fleets numbering in the hundreds of vessels over multiple classes.
This has all but vanished today -- The clubs have either disappeared or are struggling.
I'm not sure what children do today instead, but sailing isn't it anymore.
We solved distraction as if it were a game of perfect information then we put it in everyone's pocket.
"The two happiest days in a boat owner's life: the day you buy the boat, and the day you sell the boat."
I imagine a yacht is just that .. but more.
"If it flies, floats or fornicates, it's cheaper to rent than to buy."
Is the phrase I've heard most often.
Kind of a sad worldview, where in each of the three relationships described, the primary focus is to extract value in exchange for money, rather than obtaining value from the investment of personal effort.
I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for a machine where anything going wrong will most likely result in fatalities, which is usually what happens in general aviation.
But in the end, one realizes that there can be heavy losses, monetary or otherwise.
And yet when the boat is underway on a good day, their hands on the wheel... I have yet to catch a boat owner without a smile on their face.
The closest I ever came to wanting a boat was something like one of those tiny one man sail boats.... for messing about on the weekend for a few hours.
Ocean racing is like standing under a cold shower tearing up £5 notes.
There's a related proverb about marriage and airplanes.
We bought a boat. It was in good condition. The plan was to enjoy it that summer and sell it a the end of the season. In other words, I bought a boat with the stipulation that we would not keep it after three months. That was not negotiable. We would potentially lose a little money in the transaction. I thought of this as a rental fee.
This worked out great. We had a good time boating that summer. I did not spend a dime doing anything to the boat (I made sure of this by being careful during the purchase selection phase). We sold the boat for $1,000 less than we paid for it. With slip fees that was about $800 per month "rental". Perfect.
While I am incredibly grateful for the summers spent there as a child, the burden of ownership from a financial and time point of view had major consequences over the years. Because this property put such a strain on finances, it put my father through incredible strain at work. His health paid the price. My mother also had to weather the strain of raising three boys and working full-time to help ends meet. And because of ownership and these hardships, going to the lake became a requirement for every vacation we took. Even when we moved twelve hours away.
I've carried this lesson with me for many years now. When the temptation has struck to make a big purchase like this, I remind myself that often our possessions end up owning us. You can rent practically anything you want nowadays, and in doing so do not need to face all of the hidden financial and personal costs associated with ownership.
We've rented RV's three times in the last twenty years. The cost ranges from about $100 per day to a few hundred per day. That math I can understand. We even have a favorite RV camping spot we've been to where you can order an RV to be delivered and setup for you. You just show up and start your vacation, no need to drive an RV around at all!
I understand the numbers. I understand exactly your argument here. I would say that you are correct. But for me, personally, it doesn't feel like it. And so, from time to time, I still consider buying an RV. So far, I've always managed to talk myself out of it...
To me, assets are things that make me money. Things that continually require me to pay money are liabilities.
Source: I’ve watched my parents also spend a small fortune on RV’s in their retirement. They’ve traded up twice and eaten 50%+ depreciation each time. YMMV.
Another interesting statistic is that people who retire and don't remain active have greatly increased mortality.
Everyone feels that way about something.
We're currently in what I see as the process of working up the nerve to just sell the damn thing. The idea of traveling with it is attractive, our daughter likes it, and all things considered, we had good times in it. But... Having to haul the damn thing around, maintain it, pay for camping etc - it does not add up IMO compared to just staying at a motel or sleeping in a tent if we want to rough it.
The RV inhabits this weird niche where you want more comfort than a tent affords but more freedom than you get with having to choose from motels or hotels. To me, that seems like a limitation, not an opportunity.
Weekend getaways are harder to make pay off.
I know one couple who took their RV around the United States. "we took two laps". I think they made some memories to last their whole life.
Folks who live in their RV just have to come close to a mortgage/rent to have it pay off.
While out on the lake I saw people on windsurfers sailing, it seemed so much easier to transport, rig, and sail so I took a lesson with a local club.
After the first time windsurfing I sold my boat. Rigging the windsurfer took just 30 minutes and the equipment was so easy to load/transport. The stoke was pretty much the same and an additional benefit was all the core strength.
I Windsurfed for a few years. I even bought my truck based on transporting boards. I picked my travel destinations based on the wind and availability of equipment at the destination. My friends had sprinter vans and dedicated trailers for all their boards/sails/masts/booms. The downside was the equipment was heavy and all dead weight. It was extremely difficult to travel (boards wouldnt fit in rental car) and even getting equipment to the waters edge sucked.
And then I started to see guys show up in priuses with tiny boards and kites in backpacks. They could rig up in about 10 minutes and it was so easy to carry everything to the water. The boards/kites were so small they could fly as checked baggage at no extra charge, this opened up all the destinations with wind, but no equipment at the destination.
I was in the philippines on a windsurfing vacation, but the wind was too light for the size sails they had. The kitesurfers were all out on huge kites, so I took a lesson and was blown away by how comfortable it was. Instead of a giant unwieldy sail, the kite flew itself and weighed nothing. When I got home I sold all my windsurfing equipment and have been kitesurfing ever since.
The zen is still the same as sailing, plus you get the thrill of jumping 30+ feet in the air, or being able to surf awesome waves.
Edit: Thank you so much, everyone, for answering!
We do. One of the main points in the article is that this particular yacht is old, was made using materials and techniques that aren’t in general use anymore, and thus the skills needed to maintain it are gradually dying out.
Boats don't have enough usable surface area for solar panels to propel them at a sustained useful speed (especially not at night or in a storm). Most sailboats do now have small solar panels to power lights and electronics. Hybrid propulsion systems are available, although expensive.
At $1.5 million and a 23 MPH cruising speed, there probably won't be a lot of these built. I'm definitely curious to see if more demand for these drives the price down.
[1] https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a28834625/so...
Rain, wind and thunderstorms also damage the boat.
solar power instead of sails: A sunny day is about ½ HP per square yard of deck for a few hours. A 37 foot sailboat might get you about 15 square yards of deck if you really covered it, so < 10HP. Said boat might have a 40HP diesel for getting about. I can't say how many horsepower the sails make, but the boat I'm thinking of definitely has more sail power than engine power. (Pacific Seacraft 37).
That said, if you aren't planning to survive an ocean, but rather plan to have a pleasant day on a canal or a pond, an electric boat would be an excellent choice (though I'd just use batteries instead of solar) and are available.
Modern materials like composites have pluses and minuses compared to metal or wood. One of the huge minuses is repairability and structural strength for long spans.
Solar power for propulsion works for small vehicles, but not well for larger ones where energy density is important. Or on cloudy days and at night.
In the boating world weight is less of an issue, but in aviation composites often end up weighing more than aluminum, especially in the first batch. They also have temperature issues over about 300 mph, compared to Mach 2+ for aluminum.
It sounds like this boat restoration was ill-advised, but that really depends on their long-term goals.
We lived aboard a catamaran with 600W of solar and it was enough to charge our banks and make water.
> more resilient to external conditions
The sea is really big and very powerful. If you are on it long enough you'll see some terrifying stuff. The boats being built today aren't really designed for those conditions. They were designed to be sailed smarter by using modern forecasting and satellite weather tracking. Going out blind and hoping you don't run into a tropical storm is rare these days.
Tûranor PlanetSolar is a 31m catamaran with over 500 square metres of solar panels. I think I'm right in saying that its cruising speed is slower than any regular yacht. A big racing yacht is multiple times faster.
What I'd be interested in seeing is if a big wind turbine could be put on a yacht, rather than sails. One fun advantage is that it should be able to travel directly into the wind.
Racers will keep using carbon fibre.
Source: former owner of Hunter, Hylas & others.
(this shouldn't necessarily deter you from owning one: just, go in with open eyes)
there are many factors beyond monetary value that ought to influence decision-making.
On the upside, you have no neighbors.
over
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"An account of an around-the-world solo sail in a 31-foot boat, 1988-1991"
I love that fiberglass has made sailing more accessible, but those timber hulls really have something to them.
Took $30m and 40 years!
https://www.shf.org.au/explore-the-fleet/our-operational-ves...
Anyway, 35 years ago we found a boat we liked at a boat show but it was $45K new and would have needed another $5K of gear. We didn’t get it, but a year later we found the same boat used that had definite wear and tear, but at half the price. We enjoyed that boat for almost ten years, and sold it at a good price. I have always been grateful for how well that turned out.
I feel like a "life lessons Wiki" would be really useful. When the old salts said the buyers were crazy, they were right! But they probably couldn't articulate in great enough detail, so they weren't listened to.
Number one tip: know your niche and stick to it. Pick a single model/generation/platform and dive deep. Forums exist for every car, boat, tractor, and hot air baloon made. The common issues, fixes, and prices will already be in your mind when you evaluate one to buy. Money pits are always just things you don't know well enough to make sound financial decisions about.
Easy enough in fact that I wouldn't bother buying one until you at least get into the $1k+ range.
The easiest (maybe, SoF is pretty easy) are probably plywood boats. A lot of people like "stitch and glue" but the "glue" is usually epoxy resin which is a human carcinogen so I've never tried it.
1. It is the only way for many people
2. It allows to trade your time for a huge discount which may be advantageous if you have relatively low wage.
3. It creates healthier market making boats cheaper for everyone because now low end yacht makers compete with used boats and because as an owner you can sell used boat making it effectively cheaper to own.
Now... it is a folly if you have no idea what you are buying. Some kinds of damage is going to be too costly to repair properly. It is best if you have already spent some time sailing before you buy one.
Glad I got mine sold off a while back. Maintenance is costly.
Also, he made it fully autonomous.
https://towndock.net/shippingnews/sean-d-epagnier-and-alexan...
A lot of people buy houses that way in the USA, but it is usually stressful on the marriage, and banks require the house to be habitable before a mortgage is issued.
Generally large boats are not in the same category, so it's a red flag here.
So true. My wife and I noticed that several of our friends who had renovated their house on the way to a big showcase (e.g., to become one of the homes on a home design tour) ended up getting divorced right after the big showcase. They lost their focus on what really mattered.