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Comment by BoorishBears | Hacker News Reader

That's not what's done when you deposit bottles in most automated "reverse-vending" machines in the US, it gets crushed/shredded then recycled off-site

That being said, this article shows the German version of that, and it looks identical:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/30/has-germany-hi...

The action described also seems identical the the US version:

>Almost all German supermarkets have sophisticated “reverse vending machines” that will weigh and scan your bottle to match against a list of acceptable shapes and sizes.

>If your bottle is not on the retailer’s list, the machine spits the container back at you. If it matches, the bottle goes down a chute for either recycling or shredding, and the machine hands you a voucher with the added-up Pfand that you can then cash in at the till.

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Germany has separate deposit systems for refillable and single use containers. Deposits for refillable bottles exist for both glass and a form of heavy duty reusable plastic. It is entirely unregulated but has nonetheless evolved to a high level of standardization. Most refillable glass bottles are one of a few standard shapes so it's rare to get a bottle rejected (all the branding is on single-use paper labels). Refillable glass is mostly the realm of local brands that have been doing it for decades, refillable plastic is limited to big brands like those of the Coca Cola Company.

The deposit for single use on the other hand is mandatory (intended primarily to remove the convenience disadvantage of refillables) and is the realm of discount and/or novelty beverages. It was only introduced somewhat recently (post 2k) which means that most supermarkets have separate reverse vending machines if they automate returns: those for refillable, which need a large storage area in the back for the big volume of whole bottles and crates and those for single-use which can be placed anywhere because the containers are crushed.

There's usually two types of reverse-vending machines in a German store: One that takes refillable bottles from glass or hard plastics to be brought back to the bottler, which have been part of a deposit system for ages, and another one for disposable plastic bottles, for which a deposit system has been started about 15 years ago. Those disposable bottles are shredded on site and brought to a recycling plant.

The first system makes ecological sense, the second one not so much (but it reduced litter for sure).

Well your second quote states that bottles are either recycled or not.

There are reusable and disposable plastic bottles. The disposable ones are of really thin plastic and crushed, yes. The reusable ones are put into crates and return to the factories so that they can be cleaned and refilled. You can actually look through the machine and see the stacks of crates in the room behind them.

Many glas bottles (e.g. for beer, water and more) are reusable, too. They’re treated like reusable plastic bottles. Disposable glas does not have a deposit on it. You take those to a bottle bank (? containers on the street you throw them into), which is emptied once every two weeks (not too sure on the frequency).

Cans are the only type that is always crushed on return, afaik.

The article is stating the obvious, if you make it optional, manufacturers will try to get out of it. It looks like it's completely backfired...

I’m baffled as to what makes you think that. Here’s a list of drinks and packages affected by the compulsory deposit: https://dpg-pfandsystem.de/index.php/en/compulsory-deposit-f...

Here, have a random statistic - they talk about the decrease in percentage of beverages offered in reusable packaging: https://de.statista.com/infografik/amp/8077/anteil-von-einwe... It’s apparently “only” 42% for reusables, compared to 56% for disposable ones. It’s not perfect, but It’s better than what pretty much everybody else in the world is doing.

Edit: turns out the statistica link is not so random - it’s based on data published by the federal environmental agency. More (in German) here: https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/publikationen/verbrauch-von-g...

If you're baffled you didn't read the article

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