Comment by DiabloD3 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by DiabloD3 | Hacker News Reader

Unfortunately, wireless headphones will never take off until they either permanently fix Bluetooth, or replace it with a better protocol that doesn't drop signal from my pocket to my head.

Seriously, get your shit together, guys. And no, AirPods aren't magically immune, in fact, their bifurcated nature makes it worse.

Edit: For those asking/stating "they already took off", not really. Most people do not own headphones, do not want headphones, and most people keep owning or keep buying wired headphones; even if the numbers say more wireless sold, it isn't backwards facing enough, and doesn't include all the wired pairs people already own, it also doesn't include ones included in the box.

The two largest complaints I always hear is either the device connectivity is garbage, the device audio quality is garbage, or the comfort is fucking horrible compared to similarly priced wired earbuds and IEMs.

Too many corners are cut to make these things work, and most consumers just aren't happy. So, they didn't take off if most people hate them, you have to have one hell of a RDF-boner for that industry to argue otherwise.

Also, /r/headphones says hi.

I'm pretty sure you have a defective unit somewhere. Bluetooth isn't perfect, but it's definitely not "drop signal from my pocket" bad unless you have some weird specific-to-you problem.

AirPods work reasonably well. My cheap knock-off AirPods ($50 Anker Soundcore) work really well. I can drop my phone and walk into the next room and still have full audio without losing signal. The battery life is basically the same as my wireless headset, despite being a tiny fraction of the size. They sound just as good as any pair of $20 wired earbuds I've ever used.

Yes, they aren't perfect (the dual MacBook + iPhone pairing handoff thing seems sometimes problematic. And they are easy to lose). But they aren't trash. These products sell reasonably well because they work reasonably well.

I don’t fully agree with parent about all drawbacks for wireless headphones but I do agree with Bluetooth having issues. In particular in Apple hardware. My AirPods will drop out if I cover my iPhone 11 Pro with my hand in my pocket. My Bose NC 700 will either drop out or cause my magic keyboard to lose connection if they are too close to my MacBook Pro. I’ve learned to live with these things as I understand they are minuscule problems to have, but the point still stands. Bluetooth has issues.

I'd love the have a fixed BT or alternative: - multi/broadcasting support - separate device-per channel support - better device management - priorities, user/sensor/audio context into driver (when to do hand-off and when not to) have my BT "stolen" by the wrong device daily - a battle between by local headset/speaker, the car's BT stack, and my headphones...

It's great having a minijack to plug into as a backup -- I use it often in the car or w/headphones if I forget something or of BT is giving me a headache - don't think I'd buy a phone w/o one as long as I have a choice. (At least up to my Galaxy S10 there is still one.)

> My AirPods will drop out if I cover my iPhone 11 Pro with my hand in my pocket. (snip) Bluetooth has issues.

To be perfectly honest, that doesn't sound like a bluetooth problem at all. That sounds like an Apple defect in their product.

I’ve had similar issues across multiple AirPods and iPhones.

Away from my desk I've been using Bluetooth headphones exclusively for over a decade now, and it does happen just as much with non-Apple phones. It's just some configurations of phone antennas and device antennas are unhappy together when they're both on your body.

My anecdotal evidence is that AirPods have really solid Bluetooth reception with my iPhones.

> Bluetooth isn't perfect, but it's definitely not "drop signal from my pocket" bad unless you have some weird specific-to-you problem.

It's not that rare. Other people are mentioning busy environments, but even when I'm in an isolated environment my Aukey wireless earbuds, with the receiver on the left side, often have connection issues if I put my phone in my right pocket.

Bluetooth devices often have problems when you're outside, in large rooms, etc. because there aren't any nearby walls for signals to bounce off of, so they're stuck with the lower SNR option of going straight through your body.

I notice that with my airpods, they drop into a lower quality mode whenever I'm going for a walk. It's too bad, it means they can never be a replacement for wired earbuds for me.

n=1, but I experienced similar Bluetooth issues with the iPhone XS Max, which would constantly lose connection when compared to the iPhone 7 I’d had previously. The problems disappeared when I tried the iPhone 11 Pro, so I concluded the problem was with the specific XS Max I had, and got it replaced. I also noticed pairing issues in the defective Max with a first-generation Apple Watch. It was working better with the replacement Max, but connected best with the 7 or 11 Pro, all the same. So Bluetooth definitely seems to vary in quality from handset release to handset release, and more than I’d expected. Similarly, I’ve had bad luck with some computers but good luck with others, I’ve yet to pin down why. Generally the best Bluetooth connectivity range (for me, at least) is on the iPad Pro and the worst seems to be tied between watches and other small devices, or Windows computers because the apps aren’t optimized for Bluetooth AAC streaming as much, I think. With AAC streaming, I suspect the song I’m listening to has a larger cache on the headphone to make up for listening range issues, but I could be wrong there...

I think that's just physics, I noticed the same behavior with my Jabra headphones. If I have my phone lying somewhere I can walk away quite some distance but if I have it in my left pocket and only the right headphone in while walking outside ( which I usually do this way) the connection becomes somehow spotty. My guess is that in an open space where there is nothing to effectively bounce off the waves the only path left is through my body which is so much water that it dampens the signal to a point where it becomes unreliable

I've been in a motel and had my audio source in my room play music while I head for the vending machine without loss.

I've been on a morning tram and lost connection between my pocket and head with the same device/headphone pair.

Newer versions of Bluetooth have made great improvements to reliablity, but they can't defy physics and interference.

I've noticed issues too when in a crowd, presumably because so many other bluetooth devices are within close proximity.

> Unfortunately, wireless headphones will never take off

They already have taken off. It's happened

I have had the wire catch on something and rip out of my ears. Does that count as a dropped signal? That has happened to me more than AirPods dropping signal. And besides, is there anything you are listening to that is absolutely mission critical that a very occasional few second signal drop is that disconcerting? AirPods are great far more often than not.

I second this. A wire tangled into something when exiting the bus has happened to me more often that I care to admit.

I appreciate good sound and for this I have always preferred wired, however I have been wireless for a couple years now for one simple reason, as an insurance policy for my phone. As a desk worker I simply got up tethered and dragged my phone with me too many times. It's up to the individual to decide if Bluetooth hiccups (and a need to charge) are worth it in their case. I found for using in the office wireless was the way to go. If I am bundles up in a jacket with a phone and wired headphones I don't have as many issues. Ironically the only headphones I ever broke because of dangling wires were an early pair of "wireless" buds with a neck lanyard for the battery wired to the buds.

My Bluetooth earphones (not AirPods) work flawlessly. They work in wide open spaces, on crammed trains and along busy streets.

They stay in my ear when running, are super comfy to wear and have decent battery life too.

I was always very sceptical about Bluetooth earphones but shortly after buying the pair I have currently (which are now about 2 years old) I’m a total convert.

That all said, I can’t see myself ever buying AirPods specifically. I do have various Apple devices but I just don’t think AirPods are the best earphones on the market (despite what the loosely veiled advert we’re discussing claims).

what's the product you're using?

Bose. But being 2 years old there are much better devices out there if you’re looking to spend at the AirPod price point. However my earphones can now be picked up cheap if you don’t want to spend the earth.

I agree. I was gifted a relatively cheap pair of 'sport'-type headphones and when they broke (I.e. a wire pulled loose from inside one ear bud) I had to order a new pair.

Having to charge them sucks but the freedom of no wires when jogging or sitting at my desk at work was unexpected and amazing.

Didn’t they already take off? I see everybody wearing AirPods.

They have taken off. People have said with their wallets that they don’t care about the issues that BT has because the past decade tech has trained people they have to deal with tech that works just so so.

Maybe bt just performs better for most people than your experience? I have cheap $50 Bluetooth headphones from Amazon and they almost never drop signal. Certainly less than once per listening session (a twenty minute train commute). I know it's happened but it's rare enough that I can't think of any particular circumstance.

My biggest complaint with BT is it sometimes connects to the wrong device so I have to do a little song and dance to connect it. Wires don’t have this issue.

My second biggest complaint was audio lag but that’s less of an issue now. Of course wires never had this issue.

I sometimes forget to put my phone in my pocket when I get up from my desk, and walk around the office to the kitchen which is 30 feet away and has multiple walls in-between, and there isn't a single blip in the audio streaming to my AirPods throughout the entire journey.

If you've experienced problems, maybe you had a faulty unit. My experience for the past year has been 100% seamless and it's been a decade since I've loved a new set of headphones this much.

Huh? I've been using Bluetooth headphones and hands-frees for years, and even in 2008 they did not have problems transmitting audio both ways in real time.

Perhaps the ones you happened to have are just bad.

Apple threads tend to follow a rather predictable pattern around here. Even for features like Bluetooth, for which Apple has the best implementation in the market, by far.

That may or may not be, but it stands to reason that Bluetooth will never be as reliable as wired, and that if you compare wired vs Bluetooth you will get better sound quality for wired at every price point.

I already have amazing sounding wired Shure in-ears and Beyerdynamic headphones. I’m not spending $500+ to have them replaced with inferior-sounding wireless options.

I was even given some $400 Bose BC700 (supposedly the “absolutely best wireless headphones you can get”) for free.

I returned them because they sound like shit. It’s like the music has lost all signs of life and all its action by the time it makes it to my ear. Not to mention the obvious phase-distortion caused by the ANC. Too much DSP, not enough hifi. What a joke.

And I will certainly not be considering Apple AirPods which IME has the worst sound I’ve ever heard on any so called “premium” head-sets. They’re basically a joke in the audiophile environment.

I went to a Santa experience with my Son. 3 out of 10 kids there wanted AirPods for Christmas. They definitely have taken off.

Wireless headphones have sold more units than wired headphones since 2016. What is your metric for "taking off"?

That’s unlikely. AirPods ship 60M units in 2019. The market is 10x that.

Apple as always probably has the top selling SKUs. But that tail is long.

The parent poster said “wireless headphones” not AirPods specifically.

I prefer wired headphones because they are cheap and effective — I don’t get the appeal of spending $200 on something that’s semi-disposable when an equivalent is like $10.

That said, I use Bluetooth headsets at work sometimes, and haven’t had any of the issues that you describe. I frequently wander up to about 100ft in the office without audio issues.

I haven't had any wired earphones that didn't had a cable break within 2 years. I have used Sennheiser, Philips, Marshall and Shure. At least they all break within the warrantee period. The store where I get them doesn't bother with replacements and just returns me the money. That is how got new earphones every 1-2 years while only paying once.

From my experience wired earphones don't last unless you baby them.

Never happened to me in the last 2 years. What are you on about?

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