LSD – My Problem Child (1980) [pdf]
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My first experience was ... very holy. Time stopped. I had hallucinations of spider webs weaved into my visual space, and it mixed with sunlight. I felt i was eternal.
I understood what love is, and what grief is, and why (bear with me now ..) if god would to exist, he would have been the loneliest thing, and in his grief and loneliness, he gave birth to otherness, and here we are. I was my own mother, i was my own father, i was everything that ever was, and i did it all because i had one moment of terrorizing loneliness that i (as god) couldn’t take.
It was all for me, a show i put on to entertain my eternal self, i thought about death and i felt immense gratitude, and i suddenly realized how scared everyone else must really be ... i felt extreme grief and love for my parents.
My other experiments, at much lower doses just made me feel anxious. I watched the joker on 400 units, and I nearly cried. it was extremely intense and jarring. I generally find that LSD will amplify your base emotions, sort of like turning a volume dial to max.
It’s a drug to be respected, the kinds of convictions it can generate in the human mind are intense and the impression they leave is significant.
Its definitely not something i would lightly take, or take often, but am thankful for trying.
You could do serious psychological damage to yourself at those levels.
And a good reason for not trusting street drugs.
If you must do a hallucinogen, mushrooms are an option and you can pick them right out of the ground in certain places.
You have that in SI units or something? I mean even imperial will help.
Why most likely? Is it some common drug slang to refer to call µg a unit?
its actually also really hard to say how much someone really takes as LSD also varies in strength quality.
Why would you think that?
> little stamp is dotted with 100ug
So if a stamp is dotted with 100µg - how much is on a ministamps? and he said 15 ministamps - so ... I mean ... is it that hard to just use SI units instead of "units" and "ministamps" - it seems this is a path to getting ripped off.
> legend goes
When I buy something I don't buy it based on legend...
"legend goes there used to be 10 foodles of potato in a bag of potatoes" ... tell me how many kilograms of potato I'm buying - don't start with some legend nonsens.
1. What you’re buying is LSD.
2. What you’re buying if of high purity.
3. What you’re buying is dosed as advertised.
It’s a square of paper that may or may not have an illegal substance on it. How are you ever going to measure or test it. It’s a legend because it’s virtually unverifiable.
>3. What you’re buying is dosed as advertised.
This is 100% true.
Hackernews when discussing dark net markets: “Reviews keep honest drug dealers in the market.”
I’m not saying the reviews are worthless, I’m saying I don’t fully trust everything I read.
For me, the experience was interesting but ultimately of limited practical applicability. I can totally relate to the "holy thoughts" you describe, but when back in baseline reality, I'm still the same neurotic, doubtful, agnostic rationalist.
I practice vipassana, and my third retreat pit me against a very insane part of me, accompanied by severe muscular convulsions.
It all made me realize how little we understand about who and what we really are, and what ails us.
I wish more would find out
I'm a skeptics skeptic, but man did that shake my belief against all the various spiritual disciplines involving chi, and chakras and all that stuff I had considered total nonsense. Now I consider it at least to be some sort of poorly understood psychosomatic relationship deeply connecting the somatosensory and emotional parts of your brain.
Strange and powerful stuff. I did not anticipate that much depth to a meditation practice.
I still get a lot of weird muscle cramps in my shoulders when I start to turn on the continuous introspective awareness of my attention. It's nowhere near as bad as it was though. But I also don't sit for more than 30 min. anymore. The whole process was very cathartic but utterly bizarre.
Those faces you talked about helped me understand paychological projection, and how what i think someone did, is probably me blaming them for something they didnt do the way i understand it.
We are bizzar, and its actually really cool.
In vipassana, they tell you to ignore those faces, and scary things (also even the good) - or to Examine them in relaxed acceptance - eventually always going back to the breath, and it helpes the intensity “dissolve” and mellow out.
I found out that the twitches and pains i have are produced by a similar mechanism, and sitting long enough with my “fighting emotions” releases them and also releases the pain.
Its easier to drink a beer or smoke a joint, so i understand society’s choice.
Edit; it occured to me that i didn't answer your main question.
I actually dont see a disconnect between normal thought and holy thought.
I imagine i will feel this loneliness and terror and grief and deep sadness at the time of death, and i felt how it might resolve, and it brings a certain joy and a “oh, really? This is actually what it’s about?” And the fear and terror slowly subside into magical relaxation.
So im ok with death, i was ok with death before that, but the “this is all for you” moment sort of cemented it.
you believe something, but it seems that your mind isn't silent enough for you to hear it.
This video, during the experience, now defined as my most manic episode, was ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYWOdtReCVw It's hard to define.
The video made me feel a bit argh tho. Heh
I believe it’s how we approach our fear of death, and how we are able to let go of the wrongs done to us by fellow humans. Grief is a powerful feeling and im still so thankful.
i just wanted to comment on it too, that i wouldn't call it a delusion, and rather an exposition. even carl jung calls our intermediate awareness of the specific I experience as the ego conscienceness.
in that same breadth, the initial state isn't itself complete either, which is why jung talks about unification of self and ego into the transcendent self, which is niether driven by instinct (initial self) - or sensation (ego), but rather grace (holy direction of what's "right", or zen nature), which to my understanding is instinct applied to the larger self as the collective).
that kind of literature is pretty heavy, and interesting to read. tricky too, from a moral perspective.
it's a shame that we think that stuff we experience on drugs isn't real, just because we stop thinking about it once the "drugs" wear off.
Consider for example Max Tegmarks idea that the universe is a mathematical structure in an infinite set of platonically real mathematical structures. I don't believe this view to be true either, but it certainly has a few arguments in its favor. And it's completely incompatible with the former narrative.
My point is that it's possible to conjure up different kinds of narratives to explain our existence. Believing in something just because you thought it up is the delusional part.
It seems relevant to add that I've become a Christian later in life. But that's largely because of things that have happened to me first hand, that have led me to believe in a divine savior at work.
Out of interest, why go for a dose that large? No judgement, I'm just genuinely curious.
by temperament, im a risk taker and generally intense, so it makes sense that i would think and do it like that.
maybe it helped that i looked up LSD toxicity, and didn't think 1500micrograms would kill me or make me go insane, though the latter was a very generous wager.
I generally have a hard time explaining it to others without starting to feel it's a ridiculous, convoluted or even egotistical (especially the whole "we're all god in a way"). In a way, whereas I used to be terrified of death, I now accept that immortality would be the more dreadful alternative. I remember treading on these ideas before having tried any type of drug. I've only ever gotten actually high on weed since then, but those experiences were generally not all that pleasant, e.g. had me becoming anxious/paranoid or generally overly introspective. That's also the reason that I've only ever microdosed LSD before as I fear getting actually high and falling into a more extreme version of that weed-induced paranoia/anxiety.
Out of curiosity, do you still hold onto that experience of oneness or do you just leave it as a "drug-induced" hallucination?
if i watch tv, binge or get stressed at work, i become what i call "ego focused", and can't feel that connection.
it takes contemplation sometimes - writing about it put me back there.
the visuals and the actual slowing down of time .. yeah that requires the drugs, although on one meditation retreat i did experience something similar, but much less intense.
if anything, i gained more trust of my internal reality. i downright choose to see what i experience as truth. why must a hallucination not be true? it's been part of human experience since we can remember.
as long as it doesn't turn into some odd horror show.. i find that these "hallucinations" are actually some form of deep communication with something significant inside us, and it's a crime to shun it away as less real than our day to day lives, which are mostly ego projections replaying childhood traumas, not really authentic either, yet we call those real life.
edit; also man, try a goenka vipassana - a single hardcore meditation retreat will help you gain more trust in yourself and more trust in the process of life.
Perhaps a more positive experience might be one in which you still feel distinct but nevertheless intimately connected with everything. I've done some psilocybin, but never reached anything close to 'ego-death.' I am curious to hear other people's thoughts on how these ego-less experiences make one at peace, and not in complete existential horror (I suppose if there is no ego, there is nothing to 'feel' the horror?).
You only really need to contemplate it longer, because truthful death awareness, i found, made me appreciate my time better, and the time of those who spend theirs with me.
The initial reaction is fear and a terrible thrashing, like a scared child would experience, which is what is at the center of what we think is the adult self. The child never actually “grows”.
So it’s ok man, you’ll feel ok about it eventually. PM me if youd like to talk about it
You might enjoy this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Hidden_Treasure
After that moment i had, i actually believe that humanity misunderstood religion. It’s us. It’s me. And look how glorious it all is!
Reading that was delightful, thank you.
Looking back, the feeling of being 'trapped' was somewhat reminiscent of my experience of 'sleep paralysis' (and also occurred as I was falling asleep) though on an ineffably more terrifying scale. I'm not sure if other people who've experienced bad trips on weed (that are hallucinogenic in nature) have felt something similar.
When I awoke the next day, I suddenly had the distinct realization that the existence of other living beings and their eventual death (as my own) was an immense gift. Eternal existence as some monistic 'God' suddenly appeared to be the ultimate hell.
Tsongkhapa gives a reference to a more detailed "manual" called "the 10 levels of sravakas", but that book hasn't been translated, although Max Muller made some initial sketches.
Very cool actually. There is one difference to the loops of our trips and the loops thats broken by conscious single pointed effort.
Our drug induced loops are, i find, broken by an emotional acceptance, while the loop broken by intense focus is that of the suffering of existing.
I tried to meditate on LSD and honestly i dont think we are capable of the feat of trying to focus while on it. Meditation sort if opens a door veeerrryyy slowly, and even that goes wrong sometimes, while i find that the experience of LSD is like a flood. Well beyond containing.
Maybe if a zen master tried it, but i suspect that a truely awake person wont be effected by LSD like we do, he would just shrug “ofcourse”
I dont see the loop as hell, i accepted the loop as nature, so when i succumbed and accepted, i felt gratitude for having others around.
Maybe its the intensity of the dose, or our underlying temperaments. I tend to think its a matter of how much time you spend in the loop.
Ironically, i still feel very sorry for “god”. If we feel human feelings and human loneliness, a perfect all knowing thing can feel loneliness on a godly scale, and that’s beyond any horror we can imagine.
The classic idea of "heaven", from that point of view, takes on a different spin.
For anyone thinking about trying it, i'm not going to say you should or should not. Just understand, you're dealing with something poorly understood and incomprehensibly powerful.
https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/books_online.sht...
Honestly, despite them being safer than other drugs with regard to things like addiction... They kinda scare me! In ways that harder drugs don't!
That's the usual received wisdom. However, back in the old days there was some research in to treating various mental disorders with LSD. Here's an example of treatment of childhood schizophrenia with LSD and psilocybin: [1]
LSD has also been used to treat alcoholism (with the most famous case being that of Bill Wilson, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous).
All of these studies were done decades ago, so I'm sure contemporary scientists would have lots of objections regarding their methodology, ethics, and so on. But the early studies do show promise, and I hope one day these avenues of research will be further explored with modern tools.
Even now there is ongoing research in to using psilocybin to treat depression and end-of-life anxiety in cancer patients.
Of course, it is important to note that such research was in to using psychedelics in a therapeutic setting, with trained, experienced therapists, and not just haphazardly taking psychedelics to "get high", "party" or "have a good time". The results of haphazard use without proper guidance, particularly for people with mental health issues, is likely to be far riskier.
In the book, Pollan details the recent renaissance in clinical psychedelic research to treat depression and help terminally-ill patients. The hope is that the 'noetic quality' of psychedelic trips--a term coined by William James in the context of religious experiences--can help pierce through the defences of one's ego. This 'noetic quality' refers to the perception that a psychedelic trip feels like 'total reality'; a series of 'revealed truths' rather than drug-induced illusions. This bears resemblance to revelatory experiences in religious contexts and the two are intimately tied in many Shamanic practices.
By inducing a long-lasting feeling of transcendence, researchers hope that psilocybin et al. can act as a more direct way to short-circuit destructive patterns of thought and help one come to terms with death (as opposed to, or in conjunction with, traditional therapy).
Pollan writes that in controlled settings with a trained guide, 'bad trips' are quite rare, though they can occur.
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36613747-how-to-change-y....
I found this podcast to be a great fact based overview of the latest research on psychedelic therapy. The results from major research institutions are promising, though there is less research on use outside of a research institution.
If you are predisposed to schizophrenia, LSD may trigger your break. Then again, a stressful life event may have done it anyway, so it's not like it caused the condition.
Some issues may get better(depression?), some may get worse(anxiety?). We really don't have enough data to make recommendations on who should or should not do psychedelics. My personal experience was that I had a significant worsening of symptoms for several years(panic attacks, anxiety, bipolar swings). If I could rewind time and never do psychedelics, I would avoid them. However, now that I've done them more and have experience with how they affect me, I'm looking forward to doing them again when I'm retired and have time to recover.
I've been on some pretty terrible "trips" (if you can call them that) while smoking weed. I don't know if I can call them hallucinations, but I definitely felt like I couldn't tell whether something I imagined actually happened or not and was just general confused and anxious. I mean, there have been the times where I've smoked and enjoyed it, but I now always have this lingering anxiety when I do that I might fall into that type of bad trip. This is the main reason I'm very cautious about LSD - I fear what a bad acid trip could end up like.
Not necessarily. While rare I've seen 2 psychotics breaks (requiring hospitalization) occur on meditation retreats -- 1 a ten-day Vipasana retreat; the other a 7-day Zen retreat.
Obviously meditation and intensive retreats can be effective , much like deep substance induced psychedilc experiences, but there are no guarantees, so blanket statements like, "do X, it worked for me" may unintentionally send one down the road to hell despite your good intentions :)
p.s. meditation, particularly of the <= 1 hour variety, is almost certainly safe for everyone; it's the intensive retreats and large dose induced psychedelic psychosis that impose a much greater risk.
The ironic thing about <=1 meditations is that people often don’t do then due to a lack of will power.
I see it as a hammer and a hard place, and as you said, the breakdowns are rare
In regards to "making x worse", every trip I've done only seems to amplify whatever thoughts are in my mind. If you're alone, and you start thinking about something that depresses you, you will almost certainly be in a bad place. If you force yourself (/have a friend or two) to explore your thoughts positively, you won't. That applies to indoor trips. Outdoor trips are dominated by your inner feelings about the outdoors. For instance, if you get anxious in the woods sober, tripping outdoors will probably be a bad time. Personally I get overwhelmed by how awesome nature is, so I've never had a bad experience outdoors.
Generally I ended up confronting something in my thoughts every time (anxiety, major decisions, relationships, etc) and seriously appreciated lsd for it. Even a "bad trip" gave me some nice insights.
If you're worried about "bad trips" there are generally two kinds.
1. You realize you don't want to be tripping at some point during the trip, overwhelmed by the high/new perspective. Every time I tripped with someone for their first time, they encountered this to some degree. You have to psychologically prepare to spend ~12 hours in an altered psyche.
2. Staring into the abyss. Having dark thoughts that spiral into more negative thoughts, etc. Usually friends can help here, but ultimately this varies a lot between people. I've been with people where this happened, but I've never gone through anything I couldn't easily talk myself back out of. They all came back to normal, but for some amount of time they each silently freaked out in a corner or similar. Pretty easy to spot if you have a "guide" to trip with. A friend who's done it a few times works best in my opinion, but many people choose a sober trip sitter.
If you have specific questions, I may be able to answer them. I've done lsd probably 3 dozen times, in many different environments.
I'm not sure that's true, or at least not the way people say it. You can have a bad time, but it's all about the people you're with and the environment you put yourself in. If you take a small dose (You should), your "trip" will be very subtle but very noticeable to you.
Some examples of things I've noticed: You'll be compelled to smile at everything, but not in a bad way - it just seems unavoidable, but you're smiling because you want to rather than because you have to. I find that some people are listeners and some people are talkers, be that about nothing or anything - totally anecdotal, but I find that people who find knowledge for the sake of knowledge compelling tend to be in the latter. Ergo, the acid scene in Bandersnatch (the giggling is bang on, the visuals not so much).
Some advice for a good time (just treat as a fun day out rather than a life changing experience, expect nothing):
* Do it with someone - it makes people really honest and talkative, even if you don't know them that well (Obv. YMMV). And maintain some kind of isolation, i.e. you don't have to be alone but if you're new to it make sure you can maintain some separation (Or anonymity)
* Have something to do - e.g. watch. I think people have bad trips because they spiral rather than a sudden descent, so having something to follow other than your own thoughts is a help.
* Avoid authority - You'll think everyone knows you're high, they won't (Apart from the eyes...) - but that doesn't matter because it will feel like (say) someone is towering over your shoulder even if they're just having a look at your monitor.
I'm not sure why you just believe what people tells you when it comes to illicit drugs. I would advise you ask for sources next time. Bringing hearsay to a conversation about something as serious as illicit drugs seems like it is not a good idea.
Psychedelics and Mental Health: A Population Study, Teri S. Krebs - http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0063972
> 21,967 respondents (13.4% weighted) reported lifetime psychedelic use. There were no significant associations between lifetime use of any psychedelics, lifetime use of specific psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, peyote), or past year use of LSD and increased rate of any of the mental health outcomes. Rather, in several cases psychedelic use was associated with lower rate of mental health problems.
The paradoxical psychological effects of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) - https://doi.org/10.1017/S0033291715002901
> The present findings reinforce the view that psychedelics elicit psychosis-like symptoms acutely yet improve psychological wellbeing in the mid to long term. It is proposed that acute alterations in mood are secondary to a more fundamental modulation in the quality of cognition, and that increased cognitive flexibility subsequent to serotonin 2A receptor (5-HT2AR) stimulation promotes emotional lability during intoxication and leaves a residue of ‘loosened cognition’ in the mid to long term that is conducive to improved psychological wellbeing.
To whomever removed my previous comment: So word of mouth is good enough for guidelines on using illicit drugs but not good enough for religious teachings?
The Irony...