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Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

This article is spot on. New York Times stories are unable to engage on any subject in its own merits. Everything gets filtered through an increasingly narrow political lens.

My wife and I belong to a church that disagrees with the LDS church in gay marriage and ordination of women. But I don’t want to read the obituary of someone like Monson and have it be about those two issues. There are 16 million Mormons. There is more to their world than those two issues. I don’t read the news to be given a set of talking points fitting into a particular narrative, even when I agree with the narrative. I want to understand the subject on its own terms.

For my own part, as an immigrant from the third world, it’s maddening to read coverage of foreign events in the New York Times. You can’t understand what’s going on in the rest of the world through the lens of liberal New York politics.

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Are you RLDS/CofChrist members, by chance?

RLDS members disagree with mainstream Mormons on a few things, but gay marriage and whether women should be ordained are not among them.

Which RLDS church are you referring to? Because the one most commonly referred to as such (but now known as Community of Christ) has been ordaining women since 1984, and I believe has started recognizing and conducting same-sex marriages (at least in the US, Canada, and Australia) in recent years.

The Community of Christ (formerly RLDS) began marrying and blessing same-sex couples in 2013: https://www.kcur.org/post/community-christ-oks-gay-marriage-...

You’re right I was thinking FLDS, my apologies

> liberal New York politics

I would:

a) imagine something called the NY times to be somewhat skewed to NY.

b) It’s only liberal in America. In any other first world country, it’s right wing.

> imagine something called the NY times to be somewhat skewed to NY.

That's not the reputation they sell when they call themselves the "Newspaper of Record"[1]. They also cultivate themselves as internationalists. They do not represent themselves ala NY Post (i.e. "hizzoner")

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_of_record

The rest of the world is much more conservative on social issues than America?

193 UN member states. How many have marriage equality? About 30. So, measured on that issue, the US is more liberal than approximately 85% of the countries in the world.

Unfortunately, this is just saying the US is more liberal than most 3rd world countries which is not very flattering.

The US got marriage equality around the same time as other European countries (in the last 10-15 years). Italy still doesn’t have same sex marriage. The US does pretty well in terms of LGBT acceptance compared to Europe: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/06/27/does-the-world-think-i....

On acceptance of immigrants and race the US is generally to the left of Europe. The notion of an official language is common in Europe and decried as racist in the US. The US was earlier in deploying laws against employment discrimination, and affirmative action than Europe. (France in particular categorically bans affirmative action.) Things like bans on Islamic head coverings are routine and widely supported in Europe, but are beyond the wildest dreams even if Bannon and Trump.

In abortion, the US falls behind because it doesn’t have universal healthcare. But most states permit abortion much further into the pregnancy than almost anywhere in Europe. (Sweden at 18 weeks is on the high end. Many countries are at 12 weeks. The current statutory limit in Georgia is 22 weeks (a federal judge has blocked the 6 week heartbeat law).

Also in press freedom and other civil liberties it is easily comparable to European countries, which is fantastic.

There are some social issues where the US remains conservative like attitudes toward nudity and sex as well as religiosity and church attendance and child punishment. There are more displays of nationalism like school children daily saying the pledge etc. More significant issues include the death penalty and mass incarceration. But in fiscal issues, the US is much more conservatives. Even the party on the "left" houses Bloomberg, Bezos and Soros.

Consumer protection is unimaginably weak by European standards as are protections for employees. All the "liberal" media outlets have a center-right market focus. The WSJ is well to the right of Bloomberg Media and the Economist which themselves are firmly free market. Calls for nationalization of industries that Europeans long ago switched to non-profit are unheard of in the States.

Even universal healthcare, which is universally supported by European parties and much of the third world is a non-starter for Republicans and under endless debate by Democrats. Government sponsored housing is no longer even discussed and structures are even demolished. Likewise support for adequate pensions as well as food and housing for the indigent: "Welfare reform" which was a reduction in the social safety net, was embraced by B Clinton who is considered by many in the US to be an extreme liberal.

The agree that the US is more economically conservative than socially conservative than Europe. (The biggest difference is criminal justice, as you point out. We are far far right on criminal justice issues.) But I’d pick at a couple of specific examples. Social Security is actually on the more generous side compared to most European pension systems. (And attempts to partially privatize it, as has been done in Sweden, have failed.)

I’d say that the US is to the right of most of Europe when it comes to free markets at the national level, but to the left at the state and local level. The US has no appetite for experimenting with markets for big ticket public services and utilities. The US has among the highest percentage of K-12 education being in public schools in the whole OECD. School vouchers are common in Europe. Many European cities have privately operated subway systems. No major US city does.

> Italy still doesn’t have same sex marriage.

Not really. The opposite has been true for almost four years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unio...

A “separate but equal” institution (and not even fully equal at that) falls short of full equality. So the situation in Italy is still a lack of full marriage equality.

> It’s only liberal in America. In any other first world country, it’s right wing.

In 2019, that’s probably not true. For example, the New York Times is championing Medicare for All, while many European systems rely on multiple private insurers. The New York Times is generally hostile to school choice, especially government funding of religious schools, which is common in Europe. American politics, and the New York Times specifically, is substantially to the left of Europe on cultural and immigration issues. Bans on Islamic head coverings, for example, are widespread in Europe, enjoying 80%+ support in counties like France. But the New York Times has been very critical of such things. In another example, French views of the propriety of a country having an official language would be very right-wing to the New York Times editorial staff. The EU is more pro-competition and pro-markets than the New York Times. For example, private operation of the subway in many European cities like Stockholm. The New York Times views many issues, such as broadband, through a liberal social justice lens, which is simply missing in European politics.

No it's still blatantly left-wing in other parts of the world , especially on social issues.

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