US Spaceforce.mil Goes Live | Hacker News Reader

US Spaceforce.mil Goes Live

spaceforce.mil

47 pointsbusymom043 comments

While the idea that space would forever be a shared, international region akin to Antarctica, the militarisation of space was bound to happen eventually.

While there are some downsides, I actually think this is a net positive. War-time, or at least the preparations for potential war-time (as all military endeavours actually are), usually lead to the greatest scientific and technical advancements. Just looks at WW1, WW2, the Cold War. I think we are now entering a "space cold war". Hopefully it can stay a "cold" war. But it is exciting to see what developments may come along.

The other upside, is that if the US achieves space superiority (which it already has, but if it develops the means to properly enforce it - which it is trying to do with this space force), it will open up the potential for proper commericialization. The US will be able to enforce space trade law, customs law, private property in space will be made possible. This will enable companies like SpaceX to have a proper legal framework within which to operate.

The downsides are millions of dead people. There is never a "net positive" situation here.

Ok but then if one country doesn’t do this then another will.

It’s like nuclear weapons.

You cannot reverse or stop technology from progressing and you can’t stop governments from using that technology to build weapons.

How many wars did it take for humans to adopt a different “steady state”? And even now it’s not a real steady state.

Maybe we have more lessons (I.e mistakes) to learn from in space where billions die. Hopefully not. Hopefully we let the 20th century continue to instruct us.

On the one hand millions vastly underestimates the possible death toll.

On the other hand kinetic bombardment is much better than than nuclear exchanges for the people left alive and makes nuclear weapons pretty close to obsolete.

The long term effects... Yes. Short term ... No benefits I guess.

I keep hoping the world leaders will "become adults" and find a way to stop fighting/killing each other.

Meanwhile world leaders spend well over $1 trillion a year on their militaries. What else could we do with that much money?

If anything, armed conflict in space will likely play out with autonomous and remotely controlled weaponry and might as well be death-less.

There’s absolutely no reason to launch humans to space for the purpose of operating space-based machinery.

There is no purpose in death-less war. War is about killing humans beings till the other side accepts your conditions.

The current us space force has the sole purpose of supporting ground wars. And when they start battling in space in a hundred year, they will nuke planets or throw rocks on them.

Si vis pacem, para bellum [1] or "If you want peace, prepare for war".

Yes, there are many downsides to war, those millions of dead people you mention amongst them. The thing is, just because you have decided the downsides of war - millions of dead etc - do not weigh up to the potential upsides does not mean your neighbour thinks the same. Eventually you'll get a neighbour who sees you as ripe for the picking, unprepared for war as you are. Some people might die, sure, you being one of them, but in this neighbour's eye the trade-off is worth it.

Humans are a belligerent species. Just wishing for this not to be the case does not make it so.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_vis_pacem%2C_para_bellum

How many of the 90m people who died in the world wars would have gone on to have amazing scientific careers? I can name a few. The idea that war is the best way to fund science is reprehensible.

I'd rather take 100 years for tech to develop slowly than have it next year for the price of war.

> The US will be able to enforce space trade law, customs law, private property in space will be made possible. This will enable companies like SpaceX to have a proper legal framework within which to operate.

Even if you don’t believe current President is incompetent, don’t rule out a future one you might hate. If such a force existed, you can be sure it will be used for evil and for extracting favors for private entities eventually. These things are never done for the good of the regular people. SpaceX doesn’t have a lawful society to operate in already?

And now to your last paragraph: "Proper commercialization" ... The he US represents 5% of humanity. All this argument just expresses hubris and the will to use weapons to enforce it. China and India are no Europe. They will play by their own rules. And that implies hot war.

Talking to each other and collaboration is the way of a civilized humanity. A pre-emptive creation of a military branch is not.

> The other upside, is that if the US achieves space superiority (which it already has)

Why do you think the US has space superiority? Currently the US has no capability to send humans into space, we use the Russian Soyuz program for this.

It's hard to imagine how any possible benefits from this god awful expensive saber rattling is going to outweigh the world wide hit to American's reputation. But I don't imagine that was any part of the calculations solely weighing political contributions with pork barrel pay back.

I don't know, if you're putting money into the MIC that's mostly going into research I'd say that's better than the alternative

Goodbye international treaties on the peaceful use of space.

The militarization of space was going to happen eventually no matter what. It's a necessary precursor to colonization but also national security as the cost of access to space plummets.

it’s already happened we’re just making it more official

Several countries have shown the capability of destroying satellites, not to speak of spy satellites and gps, and the fact that the spaceshuttle and its military sibling was designed to scoop up satellites and bring them back to earth.

Space was never not militarized.

I really dispute the idea that it's "inevitable", it's just that we live in an era where the standing army and intensifying competition between nations is the way things work. It really is not something that is ordained by god. Look at the Atlantic Charter and other similar documents that could have set the world on a different path if they had been taken seriously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Charter

The Space Force isn't going to do anything that the Air Force hasn't been doing for decades. Operating a GPS satellite isn't in violation of the OST. Neither is operating reconnaissance satellites or putting actual (non WMD) weapons in space.

I dunno, you're right this has been going on a long time, but I feel like the creation of a new branch means operations will intensify and get more "creative" over time.

The SF's creation doesn't change anything.

United Nations Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space Treaties and Agreements...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Committee_on_th...

> The Outer Space Treaty does not ban military activities within space, military space forces, or the weaponization of space, with the exception of the placement of weapons of mass destruction in space.

Let's just hope that they won't deploy nukes in space in the next few decades...

What will stop them. I more and more understand Russia and China regards the anti missile defends.

There is no effective treaty or rationale leaders anymore.

Heinlein showed us the don't need nukes - just rocks.

0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_Is_a_Harsh_Mistress

Would you like to expand on your comment? This committee is irrelevant.

Elon and NASA have a better taste in space fonts.

Not to mention the color scheme. Squeaky white text on pitch-black background is a cardinal design sin. Given that they're literally aiming for rocket science, this doesn't bode well.

And how are we paying for this sixth branch of the US military?

Taxes and debt.

Until a corresponding increase in taxation is made to pay for a new expenditure. The new expenditure is paid for entirely by debt.

This is mostly a re-alignment of forces and civilian personnel who are already doing the job (of which there are many, across multiple services). There is actually little additional cost here...I think $2B over 5 years...which is a small portion of the $738B defense budget.

Mostly with debt. Initially it's only $40m, although will probably get more expensive over time. Previous secretary of AF predicted $12 billion, but I think that was with a version of the plan that was more involved (such as USSF taking over the NRO)

Debt, the same way the US pays for literally everything

The website looks a bit amateurish at best

Looks like shit tbh. Seen way better websites come out of an Intro to Web Dev class in uni.

As long as it provides useful information and doesn't have a 100MB homepage, I don't see any problems with the site.

Kind of off-topic, but it's interesting to see they're using Google Analytics on a government website. Not surprised though, pretty sure they may use it on other gov websites (although I haven't checked).

Been wondering ... what is the situation around Mars ???.

Now suppose the indian space program improves by leaps and bounds and they start to colonize Mars and claim it as part of the greater Indian Republic ???.

Let's see the uniforms, please. No! NOT ENOUGH MYLAR!!

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