Let’s Talk about Ghastly Dishwashers

Now that phosphates have been removed, the bargain bin detergent won't cut it. But if you buy ones with enzymes they will cut through the caked on proteins and clean your dishes properly.

From Wirecutter: (source https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-dishwasher/) Dishwashers and detergents have changed. They used to blast the hell out of dishes with tons of hot water sprayed at high pressure, using strong detergents. But starting in the 1990s, efficiency regulations forced dishwashers to gradually become thriftier with water and energy. Then in 2010, phosphates disappeared from detergents.2 The industry switched to enzyme-based detergents, which work by breaking down food into smaller molecules (like the enzymes in your gut), and are biodegradable and easy to remove from water. After a few rough years of adjusting to this gentler, more-efficient paradigm, dishwashers and detergents emerged better than before. “Today’s dishwashers are really cleaning better than anything out there and use less water,” Barry said. “The key is that you have to use them properly, you need to load them properly, and use the right detergent.”

EDIT: also from the article, don't pre-rinse. It's counter intuitive, but modern systems have sensors and if the water looks too clean, they can stop the cycle prematurely. So leave on some food and let the enzymes handle it.

The bit about phosphates being banned doesn't go in to /why/ they were banned. There's a very good reason for it! As use of phosphates grew over the last ~200 years in materials like soap, our waterways became incredibly polluted. Phosphorous in water is one of the major causes of the massive algal blooms that constantly occur as well as the ever growing dead zones in oceans near river outlets. Even today with reduced phosphorous soaps wastewaters contributes about half of the phosphorous in our waters.

Something to think about when complaining about the government causing water spots on dishes.

If we have no way of making up for the water consumption and pollution caused by appliances, then there is no tax that you can impose on it to make up for the externalities.

Regulating the way they function is the only way around the issues that you just can't encode in price.

The technology changed, but many people's usage of them hasn't, because they used to be simple but inefficient devices that overworked to accomplish a specific task (as described in totally self-unaware and _excrutiating_ detail here) but are now more complex devices that require more than zero thought or effort.

Only time I've ever really seen dishwasher problems in person is when people aren't cleaning the filters. Which is an easy and routine task.

High performing appliances still exist -- you just can't get high performance by ignoring environmental concerns anymore.

The only time I have ever had an issue with a dishwasher, be it old or new, is when I used dollar store quality dishwashing detergent.

My dishwasher has a quick wash setting and gets an entire load done and well cleaned in 45 minutes.

I don’t use that setting because I don’t mind how long it takes because it’s not like I have to stand around or actively wait for it to finish, I usually run it over night anyway. It’s the same reason I don’t mind if the Roomba takes 2.5 hours to run while it only takes me <15 minutes to sweep.

But this article isn't really about dishwashers. This is a rant about government regulation(aka "laws"). Laws are hard to get right. Often, lawmakers regulate the symptoms of a problem rather than regulating the core issue. The issue here is water and energy efficiency. The article is right to point out that laws governing the design of appliances is a terrible way to address the issue.

But to pretend that water and energy efficiency don't matter is to blind oneself to the major challenge that humanity will face in the 21st century. In a lot of places, water is carelessly pumped from aquifers faster than it's being replaced. This is a localized problem. The world over, carbon is cheaply converted from fossil remains into the atmosphere and changing the climate. This is a global problem.

Let's see the American Institute for Economic Research endorse some real solutions for real problems. Maybe sensibly taxing aquifer water or carbon emission.

I went through a regrettable phase of reading about military strategy and the like, and one of the things that stuck was how good strategies need to have a component of randomness to them, to make them unpredictable by the enemy. Trump is chaos and randomness, and him having landed on this issue, and in such a random (?) and (apparently?) sexist way is both testament to that, and an indicator of the danger he poses to Democrats and what passes for the left in the US: They've left themselves exposed on many fronts because they've faced a very ordered and predictable foe until Trump. Nobody, but nobody, on the right would have launched an attack on the left with "women have told me dishwashers suck, now," before Trump, so they were free to pass stricter and stricter regulations, unpunished by the cost to consumer satisfaction.

I am loath to admit it, but there is something to be admired, here, some kind of low genius that demands respect, under threat of great peril if respect is not afforded.

The cycles are long, sure, but I’m usually running the dishwasher before bed or before leaving for work.

In my experience, foggy and spotted glass is result of too much shiner. Today almost or all dishwasher tabs have it inside, so you need to ignore error from dishwasher and put no additional shiner to the machine.

I assume, for example, that there was a good reason phosphates were banned. But that there has not been an effective replacement is certainly something worth talking about.

I don't know enough about the topic to know what to recommend, but this conclusion:

> If people knew the full extent to which government regulations have messed up our lives, there would be mass outrage in this country.

is as helpful as the headlines the author criticizes, and for the same underlying reasons.

This article felt like my father in law complaining about shrinking portions at the grocery store, except from the 'expert' perspective of an economist rather than an engineer.

If you really think the efficient machines aren't getting the job done, Hobart continues to manufacture heavy duty machines that look fine in a home kitchen.

Well, no. As dishwashers get more energy efficient, they tend to use less water as well[0]. And dishwashers have steadily been using less electricity and water.

> One in five homes have just stopped using their dishwashers altogether

The survey that is linked here[1] says "less than once per week," not "stopped altogether". The writer of the linked article suggests that the reason is the misconception that washing dishes by hand uses less energy, so people (especially in smaller or poorer households) are washing dishes by hand instead of using their dishwasher.

> Thanks to federal mandates, all phosphates were eliminated from detergent

Yep, those federal jerks hate us citizens having clean dishes! Or, wait, turns out those phosphates are environmentally damaging, which sounds like a good enough reason to me to remove them from detergent.

Moving on to a more anecdotal response - I have literally never heard anyone complain about their dishwasher not working. I have never had or used a dishwasher that didn't clean the heck out of whatever was in it. The idea that "dishwashers are bad nowadays" is completely foreign to me. And, personally, it does strike me as pretty weird that Trump and the article author consider dishwashers to be a "feminist issue."

[0]: https://aceee.org/files/proceedings/2008/data/papers/1_123.p...

[1]: https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/news/survey-says-1-in-5...

However, I do agree it's getting harder and harder to find dishwashers and washing machines with short cycles

(Source: https://www.aier.org/opportunities-at-aier/)

So a conservative, business-viewpoint think tank thinks a regulation is bad.

Who'da thunk?

>These regulations have caused an infuriating and devastating degradation of the quality of appliances and the quality of life in our homes. Trump is a smart politician.

Of course the source of all ills is the gubmint. It has absolutely nothing to do with maximizing shareholder value by selling products that are cheaper to produce that don't last as long.

I also have a GE oscillating fan from the 1940s that still works well today, though the fan blade cage isn't safe for kids that might try to touch them. I've also gone through 3 plastic Vornado desk fans in about 5 years. Is this a direct result of government intervention too?

This is a poorly written article with a political agenda masquerading as an essay in the durability and quality of consumer electronics.