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Comment by leetrout | Hacker News Reader

I look at my skills compared to the earning potential of some other trades. This is certainly not 100% accurate because it’s based on what I pay in more rural America but I like it:

Barber - 3 cuts per hour @ $20 ea = $60 / hour

Mechanic - $60-80 per hour

Lawn Care - $40 / yard up to 3-4 yards per hour = $40-$120 per hour

Steam cleaning = $150 for a couch = $150 per hour (carpets are less)

Plumbers in East Tennessee = $60 - $80 per hour

Roofers = $40-60 per hour

So when I freelance I charge $75-$125 per hour without a second thought. If my employer pays every developer on a 10 person team $120k that’s still paying less than most mechanics would charge at $60/hour and a much better return than $25/hr off shore with all the communication lag and issues and quality issues. I never worry about competing with offshore. There’s a time and a place for cheap “just get it done” help and it usually costs more in the long run in delays and rework.

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I think your conclusion is correct, but some of your examples are not (typically) freelancers. the auto shop might bill you $60-80 an hour for the mechanic's time, but they're paying the person a lot less. same for the barber.

I don't worry too much about competition offshore. the timezone issue alone poses a significant barrier to highly collaborative work. I don't think the concern about domestic competition can be so easily dismissed though. starting salary for someone with a BS in computer science is considerably higher than pretty much any other undergrad degree. when you think about it, the barrier to entry is really not that high. I don't doubt that specialists and experienced engineers will continue to command high salaries, but I do wonder how long people will keep getting $80k+ straight out of college to develop CRUD apps. over time, I feel like salaries for non-interdisciplinary CS majors will have to converge to that of the other STEM majors.

You have a really distorted view of how much people doing these jobs actually take home

Your cheap shot that doesn’t point to data fosters similar opinions about you.

That’s fair. I shouldn’t have compared earning potential and said something along the lines of what people pay for services in the marketplace. I was thinking in my head about comparing the cost of a developer to the cost of other things in the physical world. As noted in another comment reply these other jobs have a lot of overhead as well.

It's not about take-home for the individual, it's about the fact that the per-hour price point at the point of sale, even for highly-competitive services, bottoms out in the $80-100/hr range. You just can't really sustain a legitimate business on less.

Lots of freelancers set their price with their salary in mind instead of considering the several moving parts involved in running a business. It's useful to consider that all the local small businesses around you, the type of places that have already been competed down to the price floor, still need to be making around $100/hr to stay afloat.

As a general rule, the jobs you listed aren't making $120k+. The ones that make that money are working long hours with poor conditions. Developers making $120k are very privileged compared to labour roles

Indeed. The overhead of a developer is a $1000 for a laptop and an internet connection.

All the other jobs I listed have a lot of overhead. I think barbers pay 200-400 / mo for their chair or a lot more if they are covering rent. Landscapers have equipment, maintenance and fuel. Steam cleaners have equipment and fuel.

Most of those workers don't own the means of production so make half or less of the charged rate with the other half going to the business owners.

A lot of those per hour jobs will involve travelling around.

In Europe my wage is lower than what you claim a barber can earn, but I do have a reliable 40 hours per week every week, paid holiday and a pension / healthcare system being taken care of.

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