The World Wants More Danish TV | Hacker News Reader

The World Wants More Danish TV

nytimes.com

104 pointsoverwhelm86 comments

There have been so many extra shows filmed here in Denmark that we've had to import extra rain from Norway, and push sunrise an hour later to give enough moody darkness.

Oh, common you would still have enough wind to blow everything away.

Btw I'm looking forward to see the next Lego movie to be created in Denmark where it belongs, preferably with life cast as well, that could be a huge international success (only half joking here).

Competitive advantage takes weird forms.

Over here in Japan the streaming platforms have fueled a massive boom in anime production. Established studios are full up on productions and work is slowly getting out sourced to related fields.

By my count the biggest competition is coming to game's on 3d modeling side. Modeling used to be split market wise but as games have gotten higher poly, and movies/rendering has moved to realtime rendering, the two markets are competing more for the same human resources.

Good cause the industry is treating 3D artists very badly, and I'm hoping competition will force them to become decent.

As long as there are people willing to be abused, abuse will continue, as it's the most economical business model.

People will continue to line up to be abused in exchange for being able to work on anime / video games / spaceships / insert toxic industry here.

The only exception I can think of is acting, where they stopped this with extremely strict and mandatory guilds.

I don't think a collision with the anime industry bodes the best, though. I've heard it is a burn-out field

What enjoys widespread appeal is however the cream of the crop. Being raised in Sweden I often opt out of watching a Swedish movie or tv-show simply because everything that makes Nordic Noir good, morally complex stories with plain language, can make the main characters insufferable and obnoxious. You have to remember that the most exciting stories in a culture are about those who do something daring and in Scandinavia, where we are very conflict averse, you thus get heroes acting like assholes because we wouldn't dare do that ourselves.

It can work quite well as evidenced by the popularity of The Bridge, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and others ... but it can also not work out at all if you don't sympathize with the characters' cause. That's why they're almost all crime dramas, because asshole or not, we all sympathize in their attempt to catch the bad guy. Try watching a Scandinavian romantic drama to see what I mean.

Somewhat off topic, but I saw Norsemen mentioned elsewhere in the thread ...

Norsemen was filmed simultaneously in Norwegian and English (the actors did each scene in one language and then the other). That way Norwegian audiences can enjoy this expensive-to-make show in their native tongue, and it can also gain widespread popularity in the much larger English-speaking world (which pays the bills).

I recently read that Hinterland (aka Y Gwyll) did the same with Welsh and English.

Anyhow, is there a name for this technique of producing a show in multiple languages simultaneously? Any other examples of it? It seems like a good idea for producing high-quality content in languages that otherwise wouldn't necessarily attract that level of investment.

Not exactly what you’re describing, but the story of the two Draculas of 1931 is fun:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr%C3%A1cula_(film)

The 1969 Pippi Longstocking TV series was made with a mix of Swedish and German actors. Though they only filmed the dialog once and dubbed the foreign parts for the respective markets.

http://archive.md/lTB8s

You're the hero I needed today

Check your local library. Mine (Toronto) has a feature that you can link your card and via the library portal and get full access to the NYTimes (except for the crossword). Works with the native NYTimes apps, too. Only annoying thing is you have to re-login via the library portal every 3 days.

This, on top of a lot of other products (Lynda.com, Safari books online) means you may have a lot of free resources. And check your local major city if you're in a suburb. You can have a Toronto library account if you live, work, or go to school within the city.

The crossword is precisely the thing I want! Foiled again!

No NYT but a bunch of other high profile ones, use Shortyz

Just remove all nytimes.com cookies and refresh the page.

NYT is one on the short list I don’t mind paying for.

I can highly recommend "Rita" (Danish) and "Bonus Family" (Swedish), truly scandinavian takes on the modern family theme.

I hope it doesn't lead to them trying to make American shows that are ostensibly set in the Nordic countries but don't feel at all like it. It's already happened to the UK.

Interesting. Here's a related phenomenon: currently Spanish-speaking Netflix is flooded with a batch of Spanish-made comedies, romances, dramas and thrillers -- the most high-profile of which is The Money Heist ("La Casa de Papel") -- most of which have a distinctly Hollywood/generic feel to them. Every character and situation is a cliché from Hollywood, with no local flavor. Save for the accents of some of the actors, there's no Spanish feel to these shows. Even the credits soundtrack is in English.

I wonder if the netflixization of shows will tend to erradicate local flavor forever, and if so -- what's even the point of watching them? I don't want to watch yet another heist movie or prison drama, only with Spanish actors instead of American ones.

What about Paquita Salas! That show is brilliant and has Spain coming out of every orifice. So much so that I don't even bother recommending it to English speakers because they won't get so many of the references

I certainly tire of too many Hollywood productions supposedly located in Europe or Asia but with obvious California landscapes.

The specific example I was thinking of is some Netflix series (might be Sex Education?) that is ostensibly set in a school in England and has English actors, but is written like it was set in a US school, full of details that are completely out of place. I'll admit I haven't watched it though, I just saw someone criticising it.

That was a deliberate choice by the creators.

>”It’s definitely set in Britain, but we’ve made a very conscious choice to have that American, throw-back nostalgia, John Hughes feel to it.”

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/on-demand/2019-05-17/sex-edu...

Well that's stupid. If I wanted American throw-back nostalgia, I'd watch Saved by the Bell, the Wonder Years, or something set there.

I think a real problem is that English schools are boring in the TV/movie sense.. and full of exams.

Indeed it's sex education. You get jocks and nerds, school lockers, the school canteen, all that, which is very american. It does irritate me a lot, but I have to say it's a really good show otherwise.

Well, here's the inverse, this is filmed in NY, live even, but it feels 100% authentic British:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Ve4UP_ELM

The Branagh version of Wallander killed me with this. They somehow reduced it to a BBC cop show that just happened to have a bit of swedish set decoration. Conversely the american version of Low Winter Sun was at least an actual adaptation.

I would say that in general nordic TV is in demand. There's even a genre[1] associated to the trend. Some nice serials (various genres):

- Bordertown (Sorjonen - Finland)

- Follow the money (Bedrag - Denmark)

- Trapped (Ófærð - Iceland)

- Home ground (Heimebane - Norway)

- Vår tid är nu (Sweden)

And stretching location a bit:

- Save me (UK)

- Bad banks (Germany)

- Le bureau des légendes (France)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_noir

Thanks for the recommendations! I haven't watched many Scandi shows since binging through Borgen, Forbrydelsen (The Killing) and Broen (The Bridge) few years ago. All highly recommended.

My picks:

  - Beforeigners (Norway)
  - Lilyhammer (Norway)
  - Welcome to Sweden (Sweden)
  - Young pope (Italy)
  - Brillant friend (Italy)
  - Deutschland 83 / 86 (Germany)

Including Italy is stretching the definition of Nordic though!

Broen, or The Bridge, is very nice (and noir) too

Any list of Nordic TV is incomplete without the inclusion of Norsemen (think Monty Python meets GoT).

Trollhunter and Dead Snow. The norwegians have an insane sense of humor.

They're all crime procedurals. I'd like to see more Scandinavian prestige dramas not centered around detectives returning to their hometowns or whatever.

I like the UK ones because you see the cops approach the job differently. In the US, the default response of an American cop would be to shoot first and ask questions later. In the UK shows you get more of a cerebral drama and see a situation unfold evolve.

Any recommendations for comedy shows from this region? Seems like only crime shows get hyped over here, but speaking for myself, I'd like to understand the culture a little better. Comedies seem like a good way to explore that.

Norwegian, but I found 'Dag' ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dag_(Norwegian_TV_series) ) quite enjoyable, and often hilarious.

There's something distinctly Danish about Lars von Trier's 'Riget'. The characters are undoubtedly caricature but delightfully capture facets of the Danish attitude I rarely see in dramas.

I lived very near to Denmark for a year and enjoyed quite a bit of Danish television as a result. Unfortunately I did not find too much good Danish comedy in English. Most of the Danish television I found enjoyable has been dramatic acting (including many of the tv series mentioned before in this thread such as The Rain, The Bridge, etc.).

If you are looking for more of a generic Scandinavian style of comedy I can definitely recommend Östlund films, especially The Square and Force Majeure. The former stars a Danish actor and both are quite good examples of Scandinavian comedies.

Klovn.

+1 If you enjoy 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' you'll love Klovn. The creators admit to being inspired by / ripping it off.

Any recommendations for Danish tv shows?

(can't open the article)

The Danish TV series has to be Matador. Not sure about its availability or if it's the sort of show you had in mind. But it's entertaining and really well written and it tells a lot about Denmark and the Danish self image. I'm re-watching it now with my family and we are all really enjoying it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matador_(Danish_TV_series)

I think the biggest issue for danish releases is that the producers and distributors haven't bothered with english subtitles, even though most releases would see a scandinavian edition, but not an english one for whatever reason.

I would love to show my girlfriend one of the Olsenbanden movies, but there are no international releases I could find. I did write to Nordisk Film to ask about it, but I got no response back.

Worth noting this is a 40 year old show. Brilliant, but not very similar in atmosphere or production value to the "nordic noir" which is currently popular.

You can buy the Blu-Ray/DVD set on Amazon for a reasonable amount of money. Region 2 though, but the newer version has English subtitles.

Riget - in 4 pieces.

Serious comedy horror mystery by Lars von Trier. Lots of atmosphere, great weird characters, lots of both straight-forward and subtle satirical humour.

The Killing and Borgen are two really good shows

Warning: there is a US show "The Killing" that is an adaptation of the original show (originally called "Forbrydelsen"). While the US version initially starts as a shot-by-shot remake, after a few episodes the story diverges quick significantly.

I preferred the American version though, it wasn't quite as depressing but no less atmospheric.

And Bron/Broen.

I finally got to watch the 1st season of this on Danish Netflix earlier in the summer, and enjoyed the hell out of it - the interplay between the detectives was amazing, and I loved the frequently comic moments in the bleak nastiness.

Can anyone tell me if subsequent seasons are worth trying to find here in the US?

I think they're all great, and definitely recommending seeking them out. I prefer seasons 1-2, story wise, but the 3-4 are also very clever, and further develop Saga's character in poignant ways.

Kim Bodnia leaves after season 2, and is certainly missed, but Thure Lindhardt, who replaces him in seasons 3-4, is also excellent, and a more complex, less trope-based character (though he does have a traumatic past).

Being very honest, the first season was by far the best for me. I enjoyed and watched the remainder, but the feel of the first was incredibly difficult to replicate.

I would still recommend watching the rest.

Really enjoyed that, [The Tunnel](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2711738/0) is also the same theme set in the Channel Tunnel which is also worth a watch although not quite as Nordic Noir

Riget (aka The Kingdom) by Lars von Trier is a classic: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108906/

(Stephen King later made a crappy Hollywood remake)

I would recommend "Follow the Money" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follow_the_Money_(Danish_TV_se... and "Warrior" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior_(miniseries).

"Follow the Money" is incredibly prescient and "Warrior" is fundamentally exciting.

Not strictly Danish but a Danish-Swedish co-production: The Bridge (Bron/Broen). There's a decent American remake but the original is incredibly good.

If you're interested in politics .. Borgen is the way to go.

Spot on. Absolutely brilliant.

In the article they mention The Rain, another popular one is The Bridge. There is also a list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_television_drama

I watched a few episodes of The Rain and while it has impressive CGI, the acting is school-play level. The Killing or Borgen though a bit older are much better IMO. Also, while even older, Lars Von Trier's The Kingdom is fantastic tv.

The lecture hall at my university is featured in that show, the institute of computer science took over institute of anatomy so we have tiles in our lecture hall so it could be washed.

I found the rain a very generic postapocalyptical series. Come to think of it, can't really think of a good postapocalyptical series...

Forbrydelson is great!

Forbrydelsen. In Danish, the indefinite article (en, et) can be suffixed to nouns to make them definite.

Example: en dreng = a boy, whereas drengen = the boy.

“Son” is not extremely common, even in patronyms. Usually the “son of” suffix in Denmark would be “sen” as well (Frederiksen, Carlsen, Poulsen).

Supply and demand. Pay 2x or 3x or... and you will get people you need.

That might work for some roles (you can bring anyone from within the EU with little to no paperwork) but there will be a limited number of people who speak Danish and are familiar with or have contacts in the country.

Cost of living is already very high here, so it is presumably already more expensive than filming almost anywhere else in Europe. 2–3× may go beyond a reasonable budget.

Also quite expensive, since the Danish government provides a lacklustre funding for filming, according to Danish film makers. Even Danish productions often goes to places like the Czech Republic to film, because financial advantages are much better there.

Do Danish filmmakers feel it's essential that the government fund their work?

Many european filmmakers but also many European publics, feel that it's not just essential that the state fund such work, but also part of the role of state.

They don't consider the government some hateful opponent entity (or rather, they don't consider the state that. They can still hate this or that particular party / person running the government, protest its decisions, etc.).

The government is people they have voted into power to pass laws and guide the state machinery. They expect from the state to promote arts and fund culture, the same way they expect of it to make roads and maintain public infrastructure.

The US doesn't need that because

(a) there's not an emphasis on culture in the European sense, it's more about entertainment, most don't even believe there's a distinction between these two

(b) it dominates globally and has the most money, so they can push their culture everywhere anyway and teach global audiences to prefer their ware from a young age (after enough Spielberg and Michael Bay and superhero stuff kids become desensitized to movies with no SFX and explosions -- that happened to European cinema -- once equally or more popular as the American in Europe -- after the late 80s and the rise of the Spielberg era),

(c) it still gives all kinds of incentives, tax breaks, government (e.g. army) support for movies anyway, just doesn't call it for what it is

Curious that you didn't cite the most salient reason why the film industry in the US isn't directly funded by the government: it is a wildly profitable industry.

Various states, notably Georgia, provide tax breaks and other incentives to lure studios into filming in their jurisdiction.

So, you're saying that US governments in fact do fund the American movie industry?

Many European governments subsidise (tax breaks or direct funding) TV and film related to their country, in order to promote their culture, language, industry and for tourism.

In some cases it's a region within a country, such as Yorkshire: http://www.creativeeuropeuk.eu/other-eu-funding-case-studies...

It does seem Denmark doesn't need to do this at present.

My honest opinion is that they are just whining. Considering how well the Danish television industry is doing, it seems like they aren't short on cash. Danish films, on the other hand, has definitely taken a back seat to television production.

When they say other countries do more funding, they are not wrong. But we don't talk about Czech film/television production in the same way we talk about the Danish counterpart.

There are plenty of film makers out there who still think television is beneath them, and I am sure some of those film makers are Danish, and they therefore cannot cash in on the Danish television success.

> There are plenty of film makers out there who still think television is beneath them

I find that very hard to believe. After all, Lars von Trier (the most famous Danish director) made a tv series ("The Kingdom") and all the biggest actors (like Mads Mikkelsen) have had roles in tv shows. The less famous people in the business are typically just happy to be employed.

Aren't most films subsidized in some ways, even the huge successful ones? Lots of communities bend over backwards to get them to come and film. Tax breaks, cheap studio rent or whatever. New york gave out $621M a year in tax breaks, that's as much as $31 dollar per person living there, according to wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_production_incentives_in...

Perhaps, but as the article says: "Unlike other European countries, Denmark does not offer tax incentives to production companies."

Absolutely. Very few Danish production could have been made without government funding.

"The Rain" is unique in being financed by Netflix.

I'm from denmark and I don't watch danish TV/movies at all.

I just mean all danish media sucks, and my mother tongue makes me want to puke. lol.

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