Hacker News Reader

Comment by HONEST_ANNIE | Hacker News Reader

Imagine a sci-fi story where you encounter human settlement that consumes solvent that is known to causes violence and accidents and is addictive carcinogen. The inhabitants use various methods to add little taste into it, bottle it into fancy bottles. Sophisticated solvent enthusiasts recognize different tastes and treat solvent fruit juices as the highest form of sophisticated hedonism.

Alcohol as a solvent is very similar to many inhalants as a drug. Closer to paint thinner than nitrous oxide. Similar cultural affection to hallucinogens, pot or even pure methamphetamines would be less harmful.

Some things are hard to perceive odd when it's everyday phenomenon. Women wearing high-heels is be another very odd cultural artifact.

View on HN

State anything without context an it will sound weird.

Imagine a sci fi story where people stare into a glowing rectangular box for hours on end per day. There are whole industries surrounding the production of these glowing rectangles, and the people who are particularly good at changing the colors get paid far more than anybody else. Major efforts by the academic and altruistic class have been made to provide glowing squares to people who are starving to death, thinking that the inedible glowing squares might cause them to grow food.

Considering all the studies about the bad effects of too much TV, I don't know that you are providing a counter-example.

EDIT: staring at a computer screen all day is also associated with quite a few negative effects -- whether working or playing.

Interesting that you think I was talking about TV. I was talking about computing.

Paraphrased meme I saw on social media yesterday: Hipster mad that publication used a picture of him to show that all hipsters look alike eventually realizes that it was not a picture of him.

> similar cultural affection to hallucinogens, pot or even pure methamphetamines would be less harmful

As someone who lived in a region with heavy meth use, I can tell you that I would much rather deal with drunk people than meth heads. Also, your sentences before this one don't make any sense, "alcohol as a solvent is very similar to many inhalants as a drug" what does that even mean?

> Imagine a sci-fi story where you encounter human settlement that consumes solvent

In your sci-fi story you forgot to mention that this solvent people drink also tastes very good, produces a sense of euphoria, lowers social inhibitions and reduces stress.

> Women wearing high-heels is be another very odd cultural artifact

No, same as your sci-fi story it would not. The reasons behind high heels are sad and ridiculous, but rather obvious. High heels make you look taller, give more definition to your legs and make you look a bit helpless and fragile. All of this is in tune with making females look more attractive in a male dominated society.

Illegality increases harmful effects.

Methamphetamines were used legally long time before they became illegal. Paul Erdős was probably the most famous (amphetamine and methylphenidate) user. Using meth when studying was also common.

Methamphetamine derivatives have reentered the society in the form Adderall and other drugs.

> Methamphetamines were used legally long time before they became illegal

Methamphetamine was invented in 20th century. So "long time" is a few decades max.

Nitpick: Invented in the 19th century. Mass manufactured for OTC self-administration from 1921 onward. At least in Germany, available OTC for the next 70ish years. Became prescription-only in 1988, became banned from prescribing in 2008 -- i.e. it's been legal a lot longer than it's been illegal.

While it's obvious to anyone that alcohol does indeed have some desirable affects I don't believe the negatives are acceptable

> I don't believe the negatives are acceptable

And you are perfectly welcome to never drink it. I find the negatives acceptable, so I do drink.

And so I don't, and I encourage others not to.

> similar cultural affection to hallucinogens, pot, or even pure methamphetamines would be less harmful.

Would love some data on your claim about meth, because I grew up near communities that were hit hard by meth, I just can’t believe that.

Same. I struggle to imagine the "good" version of meth.

I mean, I take amphetamines 20mg three times a day and would almost definitely not be a software engineer without it.

Adderall is meth, but yeah it appears to be more toxic by weight:

Ethanol LD50 - 12g/kg Meth LD50 - ~55mg/kg (in mice / rats)

Note this is the result of a quick google search and should be checked for any relation to accuracy.

Not suggesting it can be used for recreational purposes without likely winding up causing more harm than alcohol, but:

Meth (actual meth, not a different amphetamine) can be prescribed. It's typically under the brand name Desoxyn in the US. There's people who take it for ADHD. It's not really all that different from the rest of the stimulants prescribed for that purpose when used as directed and in an appropriate dose.

As with many things, the benefit/harm relationship is highly related to dose, as well as the rest of the lifestyle associated with it.

I knew this crazy kid in college who purchased pure methamphetamine off the dark web to use as a study aid. He is currently pursuing his doctorate at one of the best medical schools in the world

Knew a few folks on a "official" Adderall 'scrip in college. They used it occasionally and sold the rest.

As I said in other comment illegality increases harmful effects. Culture among users is also important factor.

Adderall is the new reintroduction of meth into the society.

Using the word “odd” to describe cultural phenomena is odd. Culture is inherently traditions that are not necessarily rooted in logic.

Wait until you hear about this other even more potent solvent that humans are practically marinating in!

It is very lethal. I don't want to overstate the facts but it's present in over 70% of all people who have died.

https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Even worse is the fire causing oxidizer. So much damage all the time!

I find it completely odd-less, in a life filled with so much pain and meaningless-ness is the ones trying to bury their sorrows into alcohol and drugs and other ways to trick their brains (e.g adrenaline) that I find the most relatable.

High-heels isn't actually that odd in a historical context, until recently men too wote high heels.

High heels make sense if you're on horseback with stirrups all day. Everything since then is social signalling based upon the former high status of cavalry, the wealth to own a horse, or the wealth to not need to wear practical footwear.

Mind you, buying shoes that don't have at least a vestigial heel is pretty hard. A whole society that intentionally damages it body mechanics...

High heels forces a posture similar to human lordosis behavior and is therefore very attractive to men, so it isn't that strange for women to wear high heels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordosis_behavior#In_humans

Reply on news.ycombinator.com