>What's underdressing when it comes to such a startup interview?
Flip-flops, jorts, and a cutoff tee that says "GTL" in a neon font of your choice.
Flip-flops, jorts, and a cutoff tee that says "GTL" in a neon font of your choice.
That's what I said in my comment but would anyone reasonably show up like that in an interview? A suit may or may not be overdressing but flip-flops or anything like that would definitely fall below just "underdressing". It would just be unreasonable and offensive if you ask me (and you could give any number of such examples that may be even worse).
For all intents and purposes jeans and sneakers already is the lowest reasonably acceptable way to dress for an interview, right?
I would think so.
As for jacket/tie (or even suit) I take it as signaling that this is a professional interaction that they take seriously and have gone to the trouble of dressing up for. I know I'm not part of SV culture but I can't imagine dinging someone in an interview for dressing up, especially when that would still expected in quite a few places.
I also know a number of people who dress up for speaking engagements and it's just sort of part of their style.
FWIW, last time I interviewed (and took the offer), I wore a jacket and tie to my interviews even though I knew that would be a step up from the business casual or business casual with jeans that the people I'd be talking with would be wearing. I didn't need to and it didn't matter one way or the other but it made sense to me.
(Disclosure: speaking only for myself)
Of course this doesn't say anything about their technical abilities. But showing you care about the interview matters and flip-flops don't send that message. It's basically as close to no effort as it gets while still being allowed in public. I'm sure you'd find the same as a sign of unprofessionalism in many other fields even if the clothes have no effect on performance.
I'm not looking for candidates to show that they care about the interview, or that they have put effort into preparing for it. I'm looking for them to show that they can take a verbal description of a problem and turn it into something concrete enough that they can solve, that they can think about algorithms, that they can code.
I'm sure gut-punching you also doesn't change the fact that they can think about algorithms and code. But it does say something about them as people and their character. Showing they put effort in preparing for the interview suggests they put effort in preparing [period]. I've seen plenty of exceptionally qualified people that were a net loss for any team due their attitude. I imagined that as an interviewer you already saw that interviews consist of more than just technical skills (there were probably other people in that panel looking at those other things specifically).
In life, and interviews, it's not just what you say but also how you say it. ;)
Similarly, if the candidate brings their own water bottle vs asks for a drink you could say that this is good because it shows them being prepared, but I think all of this is just too noisy to read anything into.
(I do think in other fields things are different. I'm just talking about programming here.)
> but wearing informal clothing is not much of a signal at all
You just moved the goalposts. I didn't say "informal is a problem". I said "jeans and sneakers already is the lowest reasonably acceptable way to dress for an interview" and "flip-flops or anything like that would definitely fall below just underdressing". This signals that you may believe you are too good to wear for an interview anything more than you'd wear when taking out the trash. And believe it or not that's exactly what myself and so many others noticed in practice. Many of those people do actually turn out to be very good, maybe even some of the best in the team. But as I said above they were finally a net loss for any team specifically due to this attitude.
And yes, bringing your own bottle of water would be the norm if asking for one was seen the same as asking the interviewer for a pair of decent footwear ;). Is it the same?
> they could think dressing up for an interview is cheating
Wearing jeans and sneakers instead of flip-flops and trunks is not "dressing up" in anyone's book.
You're taking the most unreasonable interpretation of everything (not just as hyperbole like my gut-punching example) and moving the goalposts just to make your point.
Yes, in the summer I wear flip flops when I interview people. Flip flops and shorts are within the range of regular informal clothing at my workplace, and people don't dress differently on days when they're interviewing people.
> Do you tell them in advance to feel free to wear flip-flops?
I don't talk to them in advance of the interview. I'm not sure what recruiters/friends/etc tell candidates about what's customary, but I do think many people get advice like "you don't have to dress up, wear whatever you normally do".
> You just moved the goalposts.
I'm not trying to move the goal posts. I'm still talking about flip flops and shorts.