Category:Obsolete occupations
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Many many years ago, foreign films (primarily from Hollywood and in English?) were becoming popular in Hong Kong, but the general populace was either too illiterate or didn't speak or read English. Dubbing in Cantonese was inexistent back then (I guess the studios didn't distribute the films to the Hong Kong movie theatre chains or distributors with dialogue and sound effects on separate sound tracks, like they can today thanks to object-based encodings); subtitling was also useless or inexistent (maybe due to lack of technology, and also due to poor literacy levels). So the movie theatres hired film interpreters. The film interpreter would literally stand next to the silver screen during the screening, and verbally explain, in Cantonese, what the actors were saying or relevant English text displayed on screen.
Obviously that wasn't very scalable.
As technology progressed and as the population's literacy and education improved, it became feasible to put subtitles or dub the films in Cantonese. So the job of the film interpreter became obsolete.
Nowadays, the verb (解畫, to interprete a film) has been hijacked to mean something else: to defuse a misunderstanding that was a result of ambiguous or careless wordings in speech between two parties.
The creative act of “dubbing” was itself part of the entertainment and often wasn’t actually true to the dialogue in the film.
Edit: found it. Uganda, not Nigeria.
https://www.economist.com/baobab/2012/11/02/coming-to-you-li...
EDIT: so I guess it's only obsolete in some parts of the world.
So basically all of their translations were the equivalent of Bad Lip Reading? Sounds hilarious and frustrating at the same time.
It sometimes is hard to find cinemas that offer original voice.
And then politicians in these countries wonder why they're so bad at English...
For some reason, the French language's intonations work really well to accurately portray and convey the original tones in Japanese anime. e.g. Lupin III (the anime) works really well in French dub.
English dubs usually fail to do the same. It's as though English just doesn't work for the genre.
How does German work? Is it possible that Germanic/Saxon languages aren't good for dubbing anime?
That being said, as animation is mostly targeted at kids, it's good there are dubbed, because as a kid reading subtitles of any movie or assimilated is a total fun killer.
The few other dubs i was exposed to later in life weren't good experiences either and you could feel the limited cast (in quality and quantity of actors) failing at not butchering things along the process.
Like you said animation and dubbing it wasn't taken seriously at all in the past, and is still limited nowadays in France as i understand it (short discussions with actual french dubbing actress and few articles).
Hilarious, confusing, and I couldn't care less. At that time, it was so much above any other cartoon TV show, brutal, violent, funny and opened for me the whole world of anime that is not necessarily childish. Good times
I didn’t understand English that well when I was a kid but since we don’t translate English language media, except for subtitles, I got to hear English over and over again and now my ability to comprehend spoken English is very good. As is most Swedes, we spend just as many hours a week in English class as they do in France, Spain or Germany yet we are better at it (in general). We’re not geniuses, we just get more practice and less hand holding.
Can’t do anything about books though, sadly. If I read a book in a language I don’t understand I probably have the intention to learn that language.
Edit: I’m used to subtitles. In the same language, in another language, even in two other languages at the same time. One reads them unconsciously, a few minutes later maybe one can’t even recall if there were subtitles or not. But when you’re reading them, even if it’s just a fraction of the time, you’re not looking at the whole picture. Comparing them to the network logo is ridiculous.
Another phenomenon is that, due to the sheer amount of Japanese drama/anime I have watched with English subtitles, I can often spot translations that are unidiomatic, even though I have no formal training in the Japanese language.
The only annoying thing could be bad subtitles, as in the translation is poor and you notice it. And of course jokes that don’t work in Swedish get lost or changed in translation, which you notice in the subtitles. These situations happen maybe once, for five seconds. Far less annoying than not even hearing the actors’ performance.
Regarding the « no difference whatsoever », you noted in a previous comment that you know a few seconds in advance what’s going to be said.
Yes, sometimes that will affect the drama of the scene since the pacing of information in the scene might be compromised. That's likely to happen with dubbing too, because the grammar doesn't match and a name has to be mentioned at the beginning of the sentence in one language instead of the end, as the director intended. Since Swedish and English are both Germanic languages it doesn't happen that often in the few movies that are dubbed to Swedish, but I've seen it get really weird in Swedish films dubbed to Spanish.
Either way, in my experience, if I see Clint Eastwood's line a moment before he says it, I can still feel the scorching sun and smell the gunpowder like I'm there in the old American west. That atmosphere disappears completely when I hear his line in German or French.
“There was a crude “guide track” recording what was spoken, but often Leone lost or ignored this guide track and when the time came to loop the dialogue, frequently no one could remember who had said what. Eastwood recalls being warned to keep his OWN NOTES about what he said in each scene, and sure enough, when he was called on to loop the two Dollar movies, production had lost the guide track. They had NO IDEA what Clint had actually said in each scene and Clint had to re-record them as best he could remember. (Another reason why his lip movements don’t entirely match up.)“
Reduction of atmosphere is just one of the reasons I don't like dubbing, the fact that it robs the actor of his or her oral performance is the major one. But there are more reasons, many of them I've already mentioned such as mismatch in grammar leading to changes in the dramatic pacing.
A lot of that might just be nostalgia speaking, though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice-over_translation#In_Pola...
fancy, two readers, example (Total Recall): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7F0VEP3gw4
As others have pointed out, there are still footmen, peddlers, Mudlarks (the recently published book about it is great by the way), nursemaids, troubadors and even arguably privateers working away in the World today. Their numbers may be fewer, their fortunes and status somewhat smaller, but they haven't disappered.
Some have also pointed out that in many cases the role exists, it's just the name and nature of the job that has changed slightly over time.
So then we come to the definition of "obsolete", and it's this which prevents me from editing the list and removing these: I would argue "no longer used" does not apply, and somebody else would argue they are "out of date", which arguably is true.
The community at Wikipedia is not a friendly one to engage with in such debates, IME - it's defensive, cliquey and closed. As a newcomer, there is a good chance I'd end up losing the argument. So, I don't edit Wikipedia. Ever.
What they have produced is in the whole, remarkable. However, lists like this make me sad as they remind me of the closed shop nature of being able to contribute.
Have you tried? You might find it slightly more welcoming that you think.
I think they need something like "Looks like you're new to editing! Make your first edit together with someone who has experience.". They should then open some kind of google-docs collaborative editor.
It's a bizarre system because there are large cultural around fact-checking in different media in different countries, so there's a load of opinion that's now in Wikipedia because it got published somewhere else.
[0] https://xkcd.com/978/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reporting
This seems like a really bizarre characterization of Wikipedia. Wikipedia has had millions of contributors over its lifetime and something like 130K active editors. Anybody can hit the "Edit" button. I cannot think of any collaborative project that has more participants. If that's "closed shop" to you, what would be an example of an open project?
BTW, if you're of the deletionist inclination, you could certainly try to nuke this article on the basis of lack of references or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Listcruft ("In general, a "List of X" stand-alone list article should only be created if X itself is a legitimate encyclopedic topic that already has its own article") and have a good chance of succeeding.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/nyregion/manual-elevators...
Looking through the list, it can pretty much be divided into "hard manual labor replaced by steam engines" and "old word for an occupation that still exists today".
>Light infantry is a designation applied to certain types of foot soldiers (infantry) throughout history, typically having lighter equipment or armament or a more mobile or fluid function than other types of infantry, such as heavy infantry or line infantry. Historically, light infantry often fought as scouts, raiders and skirmishers—soldiers who fight in a loose formation ahead of the main army to harass, delay, disrupt supply lines, and generally "soften up" an enemy before the main battle. After World War II, the term "light infantry" evolved, and now generally refers to rapid-deployment units (including commandos and airborne units) that specifically emphasize speed and mobility over armor and firepower. Some units or battalions that historically held a skirmishing role have kept their designation "light infantry" for the sake of tradition.
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_infantry
A knocker-up, sometimes known as a knocker-upper, was a profession in Britain and Ireland that started during and lasted well into the Industrial Revolution, when alarm clocks were neither cheap nor reliable, and to as late as the beginning of the 1920s. A knocker-up's job was to rouse sleeping people so they could get to work on time.
from Wikipedia
On the day of the election checking your known supporters have voted is still called "knocking up"
Turtles all the way down. Or maybe a rooster?
Also do not forget the challenges! Being already awake before the drone arrives for 30 consecutive days also grants an (entry-tier) microtransaction (available once per household, requires the same person to be awake every day), better ones are available for up to 730 consecutive days to give you a feeling of pride and accomplishment!
Peak times -- i.e. 6am -- will, naturally, be priced hire to account for demand.
We'll beta test a "troll your neighbor" option for a 10x rate, but we'll let you wake up anyone within 300m of your location.
A tad bit more seriously, but still related: I do find lists like this suspect when viewed in terms of their resiliency over time vs. localized changes in circumstances.
What is that? Someone who separates linen fibers from flax seeds, a job quite literally replaced by the industrial revolution.
It makes me wonder if in another 200 years how many jobs will be looked at in the same way. Hopefully, a lot.
Furthermore there are many cartographers that work for e.g. oil companies and the military. Google Maps provides a great service to consumers, but there are thousands of map types that it does not support that both the public and private sector need made.
There is little market left for purely drawing maps. That is now just an expected skill among those in the field of GIS.
A map is by definition drawn to scale, having a scale on the map is what makes it a map. We may maintain proportions but by removing the scale, it simply becomes a polished drawing with zero intuition of distance.
I am old enough that I navigated forest/mountain treks with a compass and topographic map as a teen. To me not having a map scale when navigating to a new place feels really disconcerting.
Missing scale in online maps—and Google is a frequent offender—drives me fucking crazy.
It remains 'on' when manipulating in 'map mode' but it again dissapears when you ask it to provide route directions from A to B.
So it is not "always" shown.
The scale of a map becomes relevant if you have to travel more than a few kilometres without an external 'absolute' reference like a GPS.
You could argue that navigation as an individual skill is also obsolete. Equally you could argue that ham radio is obsolete, however there are plenty of exanples of infrastruture faults in disaster situations where ham radio comms was the only alternative for emergency services after earthquakes hurricanes etc.
This is same reasoning why pilots training includes instrument loss scenarios. No system is garanteed to never fail.
Now, I'm not defending my actions, I just gave the example to see I was not exaggerating.
No Google cartographers necessary.
So it is not "always" shown.
Uh... peddlers still exist. Ever go to a holiday festival or parade? There's always peddlers slinging shiny, spinny, glowy, useless doo-dads.
Anyone who's lived in California has seen roadside peddlers trying to sell flowers, oranges, avocados, etc. Seems peddling is alive and well.
Computer literally.
It made me wonder when checking out your link: If those friends could talk to a real Computer (person), would that Computer (person) be able to give them any practicable advice based on years of experience? Little tricks, or things to watch out for? Was any wisdom lost to the ages when the paid Computer role faded from the world at a broader scale?
Eerily relevant in our smartphone age.
He got a job as a systems programmer at the university following the standard hiring track of the day -- as an undergrad he figured out how to crack the OS so that he could under-bill his runs and get free mainframe time. When he was caught, he was offered a part-time student job on the sys-pro staff. I met him years later when he was a senior OS architect.
>Check these 4,000 pictures and count the number of green dots you see, store it in an excel table. If you see more than five, send me an email immediately.
>Put a 1 on it, then run it, then put a 2 on it and run it, then put a 3 on it and run it, go on until you reach 10,000. When you are done calculate positives/total and infer a p-value. If it is lower than or equal to 0.05, you're done, if it isn't continue until you reach 100,000. If it still higher than 0.05, we'll get you another PhD project.
>From the set {a, b, c, d, e, f, g ... z or more} pick two, run the experiment with those, document the result. Pick another two and continue until you exhaust all the possibilities.
And the list goes on ...
Most of the jobs listed were before people started tracking things like unemployment.
There’s plenty of busywork type jobs in Japan and Australia, from what I’ve seen.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/192398/employment-rate-i...
PS: It was higher every year from 1990 to 2008 showing just how bad things are right now.
My point though, is that automation, just like the last 250 years since Industrialization started, has not caused unemployment on an aggregate level. Instead an increase in production and living standard happens, decade after decade.
Socially, some of this is muddled by stay at home mothers with automation like washing machines making a dramatic difference in hours worked.
Since a worker today produces ~30x as much as a worker 250 years ago (to the extent it is calculable, that's where estimates land), It's not too surprising many choose this path.
Anyway, sometimes unemployment rate could be misleading. For example, Cambodia's UR is 0.3% [1]. However beneath the impressive statistic lies a harsher reality of widespread near-unemployment, masked by the methodology: Anyone who works just one hour a week is considered employed.
The employed include people aged 15 and over who, during the reference week worked for one hour or more for pay, profit, commission or payment in kind, in a job or business or on a farm,” notes a 2013 ILO working paper on its methodology. Which means that anyone who has some kind of garden in the backyard, and if they go and grow some vegetables on their farmland, they will always be considered employed [2]
In developing countries the informal sector holds about 60% of the ecomony.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemploym...
[2]https://english.cambodiadaily.com/editors-choice/cambodias-l...
I'm very curious how this turns out given the deflationary economy. Will this drive inflation I wonder?
To use one required, for operations more complex than addition (e.g. division), an understanding of arithmetic algorithms - similar to those used in a CPU, except in decimal.
Ramos Gin Fizz or the New Orleans Gin Fizz is a drink that needs to be shaken for a seriously long time to get its tall structure.
In the 1880s, there used to be "shaker boys" just for shaking the gin fizz - https://lettersandliquor.com/14-RAMOS-GIN-FIZZ-1880s
Beyond that, people don't realize how powerful AI actually is and how close we are to making it general purpose. AI can already automatically create functions for just about anything given enough data. The only real problem is that it generally provides a shallow and entangled understanding of the world. But it _can_ automatically create an understanding.
So what they are working on is creating a better factored and more accurate representation of the world automatically. In a way this is a matter of degree of performance. You have basically a Manhattan Project scale effort at this. All of the Turing Award winners, many geniuses at companies like Deep Mind, Open AI, Microsoft, Tencent, Baidu. Also John Carmack. Plus thousands of enthusiasts who have access to most of the same research which is posted on arxiv and the same core open source tools.
It's strange to me how many people expect all of these geniuses (and largely working together by sharing research openly) to continue to fail for the next 30-40 years.
Still, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alewife_(trade) is mostly about the historical and outdated notions of the trade. In the distant past, many trades were seen as either male or female trades, and brewer is one that started out as a trade for women, and later became a trade specifically for men (before finally, in modern times, opening up to everybody).
It's really the notion that professions need to be for a specific gender that's obsolete here.
Almost.