Hacker News Reader

I’m in very much the same boat as you except in Canada. You can’t join most public service jobs, police... though I think CSIS and CSEC recently changed their requirements but you have to be damned good. Don’t quote me on that, however.

Anyway my conclusion is the same as yours. I’d even planned on going back part time as there were some adult grants offered but they were largely removed by our most recent provincial government in the course of a large number of education cuts.

> You don't _have_ to take out 200k in loans.

The University of Washington is a well-regarded school, and it costs about $30K/year including room, board, and books. Although it isn't an elite school, you can get an elite education there with careful selection of courses.

$120K (for a BS) is still a lot of money to owe straight out of university. I think it would be hard to justify getting that in debt for most degrees.

I have the same BS and I owe $6000, 120K is most definitely too much.

The point is that UW offers degrees that are easily worth it at that price.

I don’t think a good CS degree is “easily” worth $120k.

You'd be right if you got the CS degree by taking the easiest classes, doing as little as possible, and partying.

On the other hand, if you carefully select the courses, work to get the most out of the opportunities there, etc., you can get a very valuable education at UW. I've seen it too many times for that to be a fluke.

UW isn't going to hold your hand, it's up to you. There are a very large number of local UW graduates who became wealthy.

The same can be said about any education (even self taught). My point is 120k is a lot of debt.

As a hiring manager I don’t even care if you have a degree, I just want to see you can ship. There are a lot of viable alternatives to that 120k, as you say you just have to work hard to succeed, regardless of chosen path.

That's the worst case price, too. It can be cut down substantially if you work a job along with it, get used textbooks, prepare your own food, etc.

That sounds exactly like how car salesmen talk about the latest Ford pickup truck in order to get you hooked on an expensive car loan. And come to think of it, it is actually exactly the same scheme. And Americans are buying it.

> "For example, I would have liked to get an MBA or go to law school for fun, but those options are completely closed off. You absolutely must have a four-year degree."

an MBA curriculum is not materially different from that of a BA in business, so if you want the knowledge, just get the BA in business, which then also confers upon you the desired bachelor's degree in the process. an MBA doesn't really build up from an undergrad degree (vs. an engineering degree, for example).

the difference, of course, is that MBA-seekers will come in with work experience, have a professional network, be a little older, have a little more independence/focus, etc.

Are you sure that was a hard requirement, and not just a stated one?

My earliest jobs all stated that in their requirements, but were happy to interview and hire me anyway. (Later on, "or equivalent experience" became popular.)

I've never worked for the government but wasn't Edward Snowden an NSA employee while also being a high school dropout?

He was a contractor, which is the same mistake the grandparent post makes. Yes, government employment with most TLAs requires a degree. But most government work is not undertaken by government employees -- it's contracted out, e.g. to Lockheed, Leidos, Booz Allen Hamilton, etc. Those organizations do hire people without degrees; I know this because I worked with lots of them for many years. Practically speaking, there are a relatively tiny number of actual government employees in tech, and they collaborate with or oversee a comparatively huge number of contractors.

You're right of course, he worked for Booz. Forgot that part.

When did you drop out? I went straight into the workforce rather than college 11 years ago but I feel like especially in the US the situation today might be pretty different for entry-level positions. Your average hiring manager might just put you at the bottom of a long pile of CS grads.