Those are big claims you're making, and I doubt you could find much actual science to back up them up.
Remember, psychedelics are not a new phenomenon in human society...
Remember, psychedelics are not a new phenomenon in human society...
You won't take my anecdotes seriously, just as I won't take your anecdotes seriously, so I hope you see now why this kind of hyperbole is worth nothing if not backed up by peer-reviewed science.
Are you seriously suggesting I'm brainwashed because I asked for sources? Jesus man, you're very far gone.
The thing is that it maybe true that your definition of "positive experience" fits my definition of what I have seen as the before and after. Many of these people who have become more hippy like would also describe that as a positive thing. But like I was saying, what I have seen has been that psychedelic effects on peoples brains are often deterministic, many people who have taken too many end up with very similar psychological profiles and dispositions. Clearly there is something going on there.
In some ways, part of the angst in my post arises from all of these different news articles popping up that talk about the positives of psychedelics, when neither the people writing the articles, nor those reading them probably know very many people with any experience.
If you already have a certain mindset you are going to dismiss evidence to the contrary, too. You may just be confirming your opinion by only acknowledging positive samples. For example, you may not even know about the subset about psychedelic users who are perfectly normal and "un-hippy" because they do not tell you about their drug use. Likely, if you observe habitual and open drug-use you may also encounter a specific personality type.
>when neither the people writing the articles, nor those reading them probably know very many people with any experience.
I also would dispute that, drug use in the US is not that uncommon, especially under millenials and university graduates. So it is quite likely that both readers and authors are familiar with psychedelics.
The caveat here is that real hard science needs real hard data, not anecdotal evidence.
[0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0...
[1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0...
Of course it only happens to some subset of users and the link is far from clear
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/03/19/7049482...
I've seen the same as you, in myself and others. It might not be true for all people, but at least a significant, noticeable subset of the people who use psychedelics do fall into that 'category'. Like minds unraveling themselves, almost becoming ghosts in their vague perceptions of themselves and others.
And I think your perspective is justified, just by listening to the stories people tell about the experience itself, not by doing statistical analysis per se. Users tend to speak about feeling one with their surroundings. In group settings, boundaries disappearing between people. People becoming more sensitive to ideas and 'vibes'. Do it often enough, and you'll become more and more biased towards the things you surround yourself with while under the influence.
But here's the thing.. that stuff will pull you under if you're not careful.
> Almost everyone that I meet who has done considerable, or even moderate, amounts of psychedelics has clear and obvious personality changes. Personality is a poor word to use, but something like their disposition, "hippy" attitude is extremely common.
How many samples have you based your conclusion on? Did all/most members belong to one common group of people (your subsequent comment suggests yes). Is it safe to assume all individuals will adopt this style of thinking, and to a similar degree that you've experienced?
> So much so that I think these drugs cause long term physical damage to peoples cognitive faculties.
May cause (I suspect you know this, but just making note of it).
> The most productive and successful people I meet almost always have been mostly sober their whole life, exhibiting balance and clear headedness.
How do you know they have been mostly sober their whole life?
> If psychedelics are doing any good, it is because those who are taking them are already so broken, any kind of change could be construed as positive.
This is a theory, with little if any supporting evidence (I suspect you know this, but just making note of it). My point is, stating theories as facts can alter the mental models of those who read your comments (which is likely the sort of thing going on with the group of friends you observed)
> Society tells us that anecdotal evidence is false, but that's brainwashing.
Here I very much agree.
> I can see with my own two my eyes what drugs do.
What drugs can do, as you've interpreted, in a very small set.
> Most likely certain areas of people brains are dampened or flattened by these drugs, and so if youre and anxious person, maybe you experience "relief", but that comes at a cost.
It comes at a cost sometimes. How frequent this is, and to what degree, is unknown. (I suspect you may know this, but here I am less confident).
> its very common for people on hacker news and elsewhere on the internet to argue against being able to extrapolate truth from subjective experiences.
Very much agree, and this thinking is so clearly incorrect that is frustrates me to encounter it so frequently among rational people.
> But like I was saying, what I have seen has been that psychedelic effects on peoples brains are often deterministic, many people who have taken too many end up with very similar psychological profiles and dispositions. Clearly there is something going on there. In some ways, part of the angst in my post arises from all of these different news articles popping up that talk about the positives of psychedelics, when neither the people writing the articles, nor those reading them probably know very many people with any experience.
I agree. These are powerful substances, are often taken far more lightly than they deserve, and opinions expressed on forums often lack epistemic humility.
These are all at least as likely to lead to "deterministic" behavioural and emotional changes, not to mention direct physical health issues.
In a broader context, your implication that psychedelics are somehow uniquely dangerous because you disapprove of how they have affected a sample of people you know personally really doesn't stand up to wider scrutiny.
If you were instead expressing an opinion I'd have no complaint. Perhaps I've misinterpreted you?
I've also seen dozens of people who had life altering psychotic breaks from taking LSD and Mushrooms. By contrast I've only known two people who have lost their marbles the old fashioned way.
As for microdosing: zero of the people I know who have done it, including myself, envinced any obvious performance improvement.