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Comment by WilTimSon | Hacker News Reader

As I was reading, I was about to pipe up with "oh, prosecuting whistleblowers and intimidating journalists? I hope the US and the UK are in the same boat" but yup, they are, according to the CIVICUS map. I see no reason to disagree.

I do have to say I'm surprised that Canada is considered 'open'. I don't know much about their politics, are things really good there on all those points? Also, highly amused by Russia only being 'Repressed', the past few years of news from that place seem anything but democratic.

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Having lived in Russia for 6 months in the past, it's is not as bad as western media makes it seem. Unlike China, their internet is still open. Also, internet access is much cheaper there than in the west. Politically, people are definitely afraid to speak out against top government figures but there is still some freedom of expression politically but of course not quite at the level of most of the western world.

Russia's government is relatively new and people are still getting used to capitalism and democracy. I think people are still in control because they know most of the facts. People are simply more tolerant of their politicians bending the rules. Russians like a strong leader; for most Russian people, this is more important than democracy itself.

> Russians like a strong leader; for most Russian people, this is more important than democracy itself.

In the same way Italians preferred Berlusconi, despite the scandals (e.g. Bunga Bunga sex parties [1])?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunga_bunga#Resurgence_in_Ital...

You have to also understand the context. Russia was ruined by Yeltsin and the free for all under him, it was a major catastrophe. So of course Putin, who brought Russia out of the abyss and back into a position of power, will be popular there.

> Russia was ruined by Yeltsin

This is just propaganda. Another way to look at it: Putin, as a head of FSB, sabotaged Yeltsin to get into power.

You’re getting unfairly downvoted, HN seems to have weird groupthink on Russia. I have heard this exact thing from other people who have lived in Russia, and it is a legitimate point of view.

I think generally people don't like Russia's influence campaigns on Western democracies and that distaste bleeds over; not to mention it's imperialist campaigns against Ukraine.

Yes, and decades of anti-Russian sentiment due to the Cold War, maybe. Russia’s position in Ukraine is distasteful to the west, but entirely in keeping with their defence strategy which has been consistent for hundreds of years.

I don't think hand waving the invasion of a neighboring country is going to change anyone's opinion.

I’m not trying to change anyone’s opinion. I think Russia is heading to dark place and as a liberal I am appalled at some of the Russian government’s policies and oppression. But the story most of us get in the west is weirdly biased, and not contextualised.

> "weirdly biased"

Yeah it is.

as bad as Russia has been (bots on internet), it pales in comparison with US/UK interference in other countries. In fact it pales in comparison with US meddling in Russian affairs - http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html

> Having lived in Russia for 6 months in the past, it's is not as bad as western media makes it seem. Unlike China, their internet is still open.

That would be great, if Russia were not actively working on closing off its Internet as China did and for similar reasons. [1][2] The Russian firewall is being put into place now. It's obvious what they will do with it. The sole reason it's still relatively open is because the Russian state is incredibly backwards technologically, it is operated top down by very slow fiat, and so it has taken a long time for the Russian authorities to implement total Internet control within their territory. They've been working that direction for a decade.

> Also, internet access is much cheaper there than in the west.

I fail to see how that's a good point. Russia is a very poor nation, with incomes less than 1/3 the median of the EU and less than 1/6 the median of affluent Western nations. Of course their services cost a lot less than in Denmark, Sweden, Germany or the US. As one example, Romania's Internet (famous for fast speeds at low cost) costs a lot less than it does in the US as well, appropriately so, their incomes are 15%-20% that of the US. The median Russian is poorer than the median Romanian now. To adjust to US income standards for Russian Internet costs, they should not be paying more than roughly $8 to $12 per month.

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-sovereign-internet-la...

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50259597

> Russia's government is relatively new and people are still getting used to capitalism and democracy.

No they aren't, because, among other things...

> Russians like a strong leader; for most Russian people, this is more important than democracy itself.

Which is among the reasons why they have a strong leader and not anything with more than the superficial veneer of democracy typical of most 20th Century and later authoritarian regimes

The anglosphere is in trouble in this way, at least much of it is. There's several factors that influence this across countries, and one of them is Robert Murdoch and the erosion of media culture.

Murdoch is a leaf on the river compared to technological change. Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet exposed a lot of what they do as vapid misinformation and opened up better options to do research. If I want to know about a politician's platform I can re-watch their debates and read their policies on demand. If I want to know about a subject, I can go straight to relevant technical reports. If I want to know about Cardinals being arrested for pedophilia then the newspapers are the only places that don't carry the news. Reading a newspaper article generally has negative value add, journalists usually don't capture the nuances.

But the bigger picture of authoritarianism is more to do with the technology needed to enable it. It is very cheap and efficient to run an authoritarian state with improved surveillance/computer vision and the ability to control people's purchasing with the electronic banking system.

We're already seeing early attempts at exercising this control in Australia with the cash ban bill this year. It'll ratchet up as time passes.

> Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet exposed a lot of what they do as vapid misinformation and opened up better options to do research.

Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet eroded the revenue stream that supported much if the good high quality journalism out there and opened up a world where chemtrails and anti-vax are the result as 'better options to do research'.

If I want to know about Cardinals being arrested for pedophilia then - you should thank papers like the Boston Globe for thei heavyweight investigative resources and guts.

All of the new media analysis speakers are disappearing behind pay walls. The Murdoch properties will be competing on roughly even ground against other paywalled off media properties, something his companies can plausibly succeed at outperforming their competitors.

The old media has been losing out hand over fist against free analysis, but that is disappearing. Repackaging the news into analysis for a world view is becoming walled off again, how it used to be.

The technological change exists in many countries, and Murdoch's influence does not, so I'm not content to dismiss his corrupting influence. Consider the counterexamples of Germany, Sweden, New Zealand etc.

Yeah, the map is a bit weird and biased, maybe just uninformed or influence of governments is spilling over to the map. I see examples of repressed status given to closed countries, obstructed and narrowed to more open than narrowed countries.

On Canada, generally yes, it is.

Very good point, journalists, politicians being murdered but it is repressed...

Well, an MP was murdered in the UK a few years ago, and the current PM is making light of the murder.

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