Emotionally focused couple therapy can help love last
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More on EFT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotionally_focused_therapy
Regarding attachment theory itself: A major paper in adult attachment theory is Romantic Love Conceptualized as an Attachment Process, https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1d36/ac75d7081fcd86d467f6d2....
For further reading, stuff by Cindy Hazan, Phillip Shaver, Mario Mikulincer is good
Attachment theory originally was focused on early stage development in children by John Bowlby. Later it was expanded as a way to conceptualize relationships beyond the child and caregiver, things like friendships, work colleagues, bandmates, etc.
Examples where modern attachment theory could be used formulate a hypothesis (or analyze if you have more than conjecture):
- why a band breaks up
- why CrunchPad failed (https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/30/crunchpad-end/)
- in interpersonal relations, contradictory, anxious, afraid, erratic behavior - or on the other hand - secure and trusting around someone or a group.
Attachment can explain lasting, functional relationships.
I guess in HN-speak, there could be dyads between startup co-founders, founder <-> employee, investor <-> founder, employee <-> employee. Those cooperational things bubble up into group dynamics and product formation / stuff shipping.
New startup idea: Founder therapy :)
No question.
// source: former serial co-founder
// source: several years of therapy after that realisation
The description of the “types” (avoidant, secure, anxious) was very eye-opening, especially while scoring your own “traits” / tendencies / “patterns” for each type. You sorta know what it means when you answer “very likely” to many questions that point to the same type.
As far as I understand, the book is based on this same Attachment theory — it’s a lighter read / introduction to it, but still very good to get the point across. (I didn’t find it as useful to help deal with / compensate for the non-secure type’s thought patterns — not as much as David Burns’ wonderful Feeling Good, for instance)
[0] https://www.amazon.ca/Attached-Science-Attachment-Find-Keep/...
Thanks again
[0] https://feelinggood.com/2019/03/11/129-ask-david-how-can-i-d...
[0] https://feelinggood.com/2019/09/23/159-live-therapy-with-mar...
My go-to reference is
Attachment Disturbances in Adults: Treatment for Comprehensive Repair by Daniel P. Brown PhD & David S. Elliott PhD. [0]
It's a dry academic text intended for therpists that details the development of therapeutic approaches based on attachment theory, as well as specific treatment protocols for various insecure attachment styles.
Change is possible, as is working with people who have attachment difficulties.
George Haas, a meditation teacher in LA, has developed a way of using Vipassana meditation as a method of self-therapy.[1]
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Attachment-Disturbances-Adults-Treatm...
I highly suggest a therapist to guide you. They serve as a referee and coach (an impartial person who can call bs or timeout) to get you out of bad communication patterns between you and you significant other. I doubt you could turn this into an app because both partners are effectively learning to relate to each other in a more sustainable way.
I highly recommend this for married couples needing a tune-up and pre-marital couples who didn’t grow up in an environment with parents in a stable relationship.
Comes off a bit self aggrandizing. Still, time will tell if this method really works
A great place to look is Tim Ferriss' podcast episodes about psychedelic therapy. He has two I can think of, and one has a few great anecdotes. From him you'll find many others. Gabor Maté is a good one to check out. He uses psychedelics extensively in therapy and has for quite some time.
One woman I listened to (I believe on Tim's podcast) detailed how her and her husband would take MDMA (I believe) every year or so and talk things out. Whether things were good or bad. She describes herself as the last kind of person you'd expect to see taking illegal drugs, but here she is, and she believes it has made her marriage far better than it would have been without them.
There are countless similar stories.
There are also studies using it to treat PTSD in veterans.
Hope it was the other commenter who down voted me.
> In follow-up psychotherapy, patients process emotions and insights brought up during the MDMA session. The current protocol calls for patients to take MDMA two or three times, each a month apart, interspersed with psychotherapy.
> “The MDMA alone or the therapy alone don’t appear to be as effective,” Dr. Mithoefer said. “The MDMA seems to act as a catalyst that allows the healing to happen.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/01/us/ecstasy-molly-ptsd-mdm...
[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/DrugNerds/comments/15m9sf/mdma_supp...
This is a false belief.
You absolutely can, and should, make the conscious decision to be more like X in your everyday life, where X is how you behave under the influence of MDMA.
I had the same problem, and got a horrible down when the drug wore off, UNTIL I realized that what the pill actually does, is SHOW ME WHAT I'M CAPABLE OF FEELING. The very INSTANT I believed it was possible, all bad feels disappeared and I was left with an afterglow that lasted for weeks.
It's not a downside of MDMA, quite the opposite; a reflection of your own weakness, the knowledge of which helps you fix it!
The feeling of bliss should come from a successful relationship with others, not some drug.
According to here[0], you are quite correct:
Amphetamines are a class of psychostimulant drugs that are widely abused for their stimulant, euphoric, empathogenic and hallucinogenic properties. Many of these effects result from acute increases in dopamine and serotonin neurotransmission. Subsequent to these acute effects, methamphetamine and 3,4 methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) produce persistent damage to dopamine and serotonin nerve terminals. This review summarizes the numerous interdependent mechanisms including excitotoxicity, mitochondrial damage and oxidative stress that have been demonstrated to contribute to this damage. Emerging non-neuronal mechanisms by which the drugs may contribute to monoaminergic terminal damage, as well as the neuropsychiatric consequences of this terminal damage are also presented. Methamphetamine and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) have similar chemical structures and pharmacologic properties compared to other abused substances including cathinone (khat), as well as a relatively new class of novel synthetic amphetamines known as ‘bath salts’ that have gained popularity amongst drug abusers.
My impression - even with my parents - was that couples always replay conflicts following certain patterns. Turns out it's really the case.
"we cracked the code of love" would have been a better headline for that article. It's an actual quote from it.
I hate stuff like this because it’s some of the most “just-so” evolutionary reasoning there is. It reminds me a lot of the way “ancient” or “evolutionary” stories are used to justify fad diets.
No amount of statistical studies on current couples therapy outcomes can confirm such a highly specific evolutionary marketing tag line. Not to mention that, like with many parts of social science, we should be hugely skeptical of the research basis for this technique.
I’d need much more compelling discussion of the study methodologies before finding it worthwhile to invest in really reading them and deciding if there is credibility to it, or if the outcomes are due to confounding factors or selection effects.
But hearing just-so reasoning about attachment bonds is a non-starter. What about forager societies with loose sexual norms and cultures that did not emphasize monogamy or long-term partner bonding?
It's like they think that just because evolution itself is basically a status quo in the scientific community, then any other random preposterous bs argument that you make about it, or just use the evolutionary terms in, would somehow automatically by association have as much predictive power/internal coherence/pure basic connection to reality as the evolution itself. It's a disgrace this is so prevalent nowadays... It is a clear sign that whoever writes the content is no real scientist.
For example, "men evolved to be promiscuous because having many children gave the biggest chance at surviving offspring" makes sense until you realize "men evolved to be faithful because nurturing their children gave them the biggest chance at surviving offspring" makes just as much sense.
When your theory can explain everything, it can explain nothing.
Neither approach is strictly better than the other. It's situational.
You gotta look at how many resources are available how easy and predation pressure and probably lots of more factors.
I don't necessarily accept this as science, but as way of analogize complex human behavior without being overwhelmed by variables and contradictions.
A framework will tend to pick what's important and be a way of handling signal:noise.
For example, you could take a more grim framework, like terror management theory will say we're all in fear of death and so society make rules, individuals focus on self-esteem, all to shake off the anxiety mortality gives us. It's hard to disprove that, but that's the point: it posits a core human motivation while willfully ignoring other things to get from Point A -> Point B (example: the motivation of Alexander the Great's military campaigns were to spread his cultural standards/law and ensure forces threatening those rules at home were contained / eliminated. Him naming cities after himself explains the self-esteem motive :P. Napoleon, Emperor Qin, all conquered and placed legal/regulatory systems in their wake)
Back to frameworks in general: It's built off observational anecdotes and if put to the rigors of say - a physics experiment - it'd be hard to give that kind control / certainty. We can't read minds, and various types of reporting methods may not pan out. Our whole lives we're forming object relations that have meanings/associations/intricacies on an individual basis. So to handle things, we pick a common denominator and use that to inspect the situation.
We have to look back into relationships and see conditions / cause / effect, rather than being able to simulate in a controlled setting.
> What about forager societies with loose sexual norms and cultures that did not emphasize monogamy or long-term partner bonding?
Attachment theory tries to be a theory of everything. It'd then be chalked up to difference in culture/customs, rather than the theory not fitting. If a monogamous relationship isn't there, some other bond likely will. Doesn't have to be romantic.
The relations between the hunting group, the teamwork and dynamics of the tribe. It could be argued the cooperation based on trust is what kept it together, so they could survive. It involved letting their guard down at times to trust someone else.
It could also explain betrayals, outcasts and desertion, longstanding protracted hostilities and alliances.
The author has perhaps unfortunately led you to fill in the blanks about what “this kind of connection” means, but the attachment science part has nothing to do with monogamy or sexual norms.
Can you point to the studies on this? I’m extremely skeptical. I’m sure lots of research papers have been published, much like in evolutionary game theory, while the reality is none of the generalized comments of million-year evolutionary processes has actually been backed up. Most often these claims aren’t even falsifiable.
The issue with non-monogamy is that a pairing (2 people) is the smallest working group, and that's what the game theory of dating proves to be most durable and successful. A 3-person working group requires at least 3x more relationship work, and a 4-person pairing requires 6x as much.
The statistics, obviously, bear out that a large number of, even happy, people cannot hack it under the constraints of monogamy. Either monogamy needs to be better defined or we need to drop it as a societal pressure/constraint on relationships. Probably a little bit of both is needed.
Naively, I'd wonder if children could be raised better by a group of adults rather than a couple.
And yes, this is very much my business, because how you raise your children dictates what kind of society my children will live in, so please raise them right.
Sure, but I'd like to see if your conjecture is actually backed up by the evidence. I too might be initially inclined to believe that monogamous partners are better for childcare, but I'm guessing that I am also epistemically biased towards that assumption, just as a product of the societal norms I've grown up with.
The problem is people attach too much ego to their relationships and jealously easily flares up when there is a hint that their partner may also be attracted to someone else. There are also financial motivations for catching your partner in an affair and immediately leaving them.
However, the fact remains that people already have these kinds of relationships, they are just not talked about or openly accepted. It’s a bit like being a gay man 40-50 years ago.
If it weren’t for society priming people to instantly dump a partner upon discovering they are a practicing non-monogamist, people might be forced to think for themselves and decide if that’s something their okay with, and I suspect many people might be.
...
> partner upon discovering they are a practicing non-monogamist
...
> ethical
Nah.
> partner upon discovering they are a practicing non-monogamist
You don't "discover you're a practicing non-monogamist", that's just a euphemism for finding out you're being cheated on. You either agree to non-monogamy or you don't but the only ethical time to give someone that choice is before you've started practicing it behind their back.
> I find demeaning others life choices publicly online to be anti-ethical, but what do I know. Please be nice.
It's actually the grandparent that keeps demeaning people's life choices by calling monogamy "boring", "vanilla" and "on the wrong side of history".
The only way having multiple partners is ethical is if they are all aware of each other and it was agreed upon before hand that the relationship is open. What you're advocating for is extremely unethical.
Even with your definition of attraction, attraction-based love is fundamentally self-serving, and those who practice it rob themselves of the beauty of blind commitment in loving relationships.
Why do people bother dating if it’s sufficient to move in with a friend?
How do we explain people who already live with close friends and are also out seeking romantic partners? What marginal benefit could they be looking for? Why limit the search according to gender, if attraction is not essential?
My own experience after 15 years of marriage is that attraction comes and goes for both me and my wife. But by not doing anything rash when that happens we have both discovered that it also comes back. Sure the first few times it happened it was quite scary, but then we've found a rhythm with the ebbs and floods.
If you are just waiting for the attraction to come back, chances are that it doesn't, even though it certainly could. It all depends on the reason that attraction disappears. Sometimes it's related to the things you do and sometimes it isn't. The key, I believe, is to always try to be a better spouse than you were a year ago, or even a month ago. But that of course presupposes that there exist mutual trust and respect between you. It won't work if only one part is trying to be a better self for the other.
My physical attraction to my wife comes and goes. When that first started happening, it was traumatic. At this point, it really doesn't feel like a big deal. There are always more important things to be working on when it happens. (Probably not coincidentally!)
A bit later in our relationship, the same thing started happening for more general attraction. The decision to stay together would get very practical for a time. Again, this was initially very traumatic, but over time it became more and more clear that it was an effect, not a cause. Our focus shifted to the true causes, to the extent we could figure them out, and that was vastly more effective than trying to somehow address lack of attraction directly.
In short, my experience directly contradicts your position, anecdotal though it may be.
Attachment Theory attempts to explain why certain relationships are better than others which is dependent on how secure or insecure each partner is with regard to attachment. For example, if both parties are classified as having “secure attachment”, they may feel distress when their partner leaves them for say a long work trip but they’re able to compose themselves and control those worries. That sort of relationship would be said to have a higher chance of survival than two partners who are both “anxious-ambivalent attached” because in this case, the parties would instead have strong fear or worry of rejection by their partner, higher dependency on each other, and less likely to be comfortable being alone. None of those elements rest solely on the basis of attraction. This type of behavior stems from being a witness to conflicting figures in their life (e.g. divorced parents, unsafe family habitat, etc.)