The Intoxicating History of Gin | Hacker News Reader

The Intoxicating History of Gin

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While we're on the subject of gin:

A martini is comprised of gin, vermouth and between 0 and 3 olives.

If there is no vermouth it isn't a "bone dry martini". It's just "a glass of cold gin".

The modifiers "perfect" and "dirty" are also permissible when applied to to a martini.

If it's made with vodka, not gin, it's a vodka martini.

Other concoctions served in a cocktail glass are just cocktails. Which are fine, but please don't co-opt the name "martini" because it sounds cosmopolitan.

Wait.

Shit.

To be pedantic, a martini is comprised of gin, vermouth, and the water from the ice. If you try making one without ice (e.g. with a freezer) it's too strong

A lot of places in America serve room temperature non melted martinis. Pretty horrible.

Most places in France think that when you order a Martini you want a glass of vermouth, not a cocktail. And if you give them the ingredients they will say "ah like a vodka martini but with gin?" ...

That's mostly because "Martini" is the prevalent brand of vermouth in central Europe. It's super confusing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martini_%26_Rossi

But France is Western Europe, not central. Is it the prevalent brand there too?

>Usually the countries considered to be Central European are Austria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland; in the broader sense Romania and Serbia too, occasionally also Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg.

I think that Martini was overwhelmingly the most prevalent brand of vermouth the world over. That's certainly the case in the US.

Vermouth is from Italy, which is more Central European than Belgium, the Netherlands, or Luxembourg.

I've never heard people refer to Italy as "central Europe", personally.

Yea. Made that mistake before. Got vermouth with a slice of lemon

For more nerdy detail on this than you ever realized you wanted, see: http://cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=1527.html

Looking at the bottle of vermouth while stirring the gin provided enough vermouth for Churchill and it provides enough for me.

A solemn nod in the general direction of France is sufficient, and don't skimp on the olives.

I thought just a glance towards France was enough for the ol' British Bulldog

The horrors that man perpetrated on a whisk(e)y and soda....

If it has vodka instead of gin it’s not a vodka martini, it’s a kangaroo

nonsense, that's an animal

...so I shouldn't pack up and move to Australia with dreams of draining the wildlife of one of my favorite drinks?

There is a great bracing joy in having an occasional classic proportioned martini. 4:1 with a splash of Regans. Stirred until completely cold and poured in an ice cold martini glass. It connects you with all the great martini drinkers of the past. For a moment you are sitting with Myrna Loy and William Powell engaged in carefree and sarcastic conversation all the while ignoring the depression gripping the country.

As an outsider, this sounds like marketing material from alcohol vendors that their customers use to justify their drug use...

> Three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel

I've found I really like the Vesper martini. It's more floral and refreshing than the traditional one

I'm skeptical of a recipe that calls out its gin, but not its vodka, and also refers to a lemon twist as "a large thin slice of lemon peel." Not so skeptical that I won't try making it with several types of vodka. But skeptical nonetheless.

I'm not so skeptical, since Vodka is not generally added for the flavour or aromas (which get clouded by almost any other ingredient anyway) but more likely to add texture, to tone down the flavour profile of another spirit without having to water it down, and sometimes even for economy when using more expensive spirits. Any decent brand of Vodka will generally do the job.

I'm now in an "americana" gin phase (st. george, distillery 209, etc) since they're not as commonplace here in Europe and I've been known to mix them with just commercial Vodkas whilst experimenting with a few cocktail recipes. I do that more with barrel aged gins -- the flavours of oily or smoky spirits don't easily work in cocktails so toning them down tends to produce some more interesting results.

Different gins have very different flavor profiles. The entire point of vodka is not to have distinct characteristics (Dave Arnold's favorite vodka is potable lab ethanol diluted to 40%, and Dave Arnold has forgotten more about liquor science than most of us will ever learn).

I feel like vodka only comes in two classes: "noticeably bad" and "not noticeable".

Adding to the fun, swap out olives for a cocktail onion and you have yourself a Gibson.

Incidentally, this is also the name of one of the best bars I know: http://thegibsonbar.london

The owner is the amazingly talented Marian Beke[1], whom I got to know while living in London and frequenting Nightjar, another fantastic establishment – in the same neighbourhood no less! If you're ever in the area, you should definitely go for a visit.

NB: Beyond being a bit of a drunkard, I have no affiliation with any of the above.

[1]: https://www.diffordsguide.com/people/11764/bar-owner/marian-...

I love Gibsons - I went through a phase about two years ago of ordering them at every bar I went to. It worked out, since I was doing a tour of cocktails bars in Manhattan.

I have watched a barman prepare an oyster martini - which was about as odd to watch as it presumably was to drink.

This actually sounds delicious, I'll get some oysters next Friday by the street market, thanks

A long time ago I learned the saying:

The only things I ever did that I regret.... I did while drinking gin!

“Martinis are the only American invention as perfect as a sonnet.”

-H. L. Mencken

>From the outset, it was laced with memories, or myths, of imperial rule; what Schweppes first sold in 1870 was not just tonic water but “Indian Tonic Water,” and today, though besieged by an army of Fever-Tree tonics, it still holds considerable sway. The water is tonic because it contains quinine, which is anti-malarial—a lifesaver, if you happen to be invading or infesting a marshy foreign land.

Oh yes - gin and tonic should be rightfully considered India's national drink. Its what the British had to invent to not die.

Its what the British had to invent to not die.

Exactly. G&T is essentially an important preventative medicine, and I should drink it more often so I won't get malaria here in the North East of the UK.

G&T was the most disgusting thing I had ever tasted until I acquired a taste for it and now it is one of the nicest. Mind you for some reason my recollection of how I acquired a near-constant craving for G&T is somewhat blurry.

Edit: Note that I don't drink that often but even thinking about a G&T literally makes my mouth water.

I also assumed it was one of those "acquired taste" things - like as a teenager I really couldn't stand the taste of beer but I drank it because all my peers did. Now I love the stuff.

Unfortunately the same can't be said for G&T, much as I want to like it.

As someone who loves bitter and sour flavors (I enjoy raw onion, garlic, lime/lemon, horseradish, and yes: straight gin) a G&T was a delight from the very first sip I ever had. Not comparing it to those examples, but I love the bitter flavors of it.

If you do actually want to like it, be sure that you have tried a place that offers Fever Tree tonic and Hendrick's gin and ask for them by name. Do not simply ask for a generic "gin and tonic" made with their cheapest gin and tonic syrup mixed up in their soda dispenser — either of which are quite liable to render the concoction entirely undrinkable.

A good gin and tonic also includes a lime wedge. Even a little of this in the drink makes a big difference.

(Yes, there are definitely other gins that would work, and indeed, other tonics — but these are the more popular big names which you will have more luck finding at bars.)

The best gin and tonic recipe is again Indian flavors .

Mango slices and pepper . They have a certain chemical that binds with the stuff inside gin and makes it better.

Given the proliferation of different flavored gins[1] I think it's possible no one actually likes the taste of gin. There are hundreds of flavors on Amazon.co.uk[2].

[1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=gin&rh=n%3A340834031%2Cn%3A3598...

[2] Amazon.com doesn't sell beer or spirits. Weird.

>Amazon.com doesn't sell beer or spirits. Weird.

It isn't weird if you know how strange the alcohol laws can be across North America, including Canada. Shipping alcohol from one state (or province, in my case) to another isn't always possible.

Some classic Beefeater is great. I like gin quite a bit, perhaps more than rum

I promise I actually like the taste of gin.

You might notice how much corn syrup/sugar is now added to store-bought tonic water. I have no doubt (but no proof) that this has increased over time. So that could be why you find them more palatable now.

Went the other way, for me. I used to love tonic water, neat, but it's gotten to be so sweet that it's unenjoyable.

> Mind you for some reason my recollection of how I acquired a near-constant craving for G&T is somewhat blurry.

I believe this is a strong indication that you were doing it right. ;o)

For years I almost exclusively drank Sapphire and tonic.

There's an entire chapter in Arnold's Liquid Intelligence dedicated to his quest to perfect the G&T. It's an amazing book, highly, highly recommended.

Spoiler for the mere-mortal version: store your gin in the freezer, use a fresh bottle of tonic water stored on ice, serve in a highball glass (you're not well equipped enough to do his champagne flute version), 1 3/4 oz gin to 3 1/4 tonic --- measure the tonic by first measuring 5 oz of plain water into the glass, noting the water level, and free-pouring the tonic to that same level (jiggering the tonic loses too much carbonation).

a great recipe for your own tonic can be found here:

https://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/how-to-make-your-own-ton...

it's quite a good tonic when prepared correctly.

"a drink that spoke more unfathomably to the deeps of the British soul than to that of other races"

Quite fathomable, we're a bunch of alcoholics (only partly joking).

#6 in this list of 33 countries (2015)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_c...

#25 in this list of 191 (2010 figures)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_c...

Nothing against booze (certainly not allergic to a G&T either) but we can go a bit OTT with it.

BBC’s In our time podcast has a fascinating show on the Gin Crazy, paneled by 3 experts: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b084zk6z

Gin and bourbon are my desert island spirits. I love how they are surging into the cocktail space and you can find both gin and whiskey exclusive bars all over (in wisconsin at least!). Lots are starting to barrel rest their gins which give it an oaky flavor reminiscent of whiskey. Monkey 47 is a favorite of mine which I drink straight, maybe with an ice cube. But some local gins here in Madison, WI do a really great job as well. Look out for "bartenders" edition gins from england, which generally are kicked up versions.

Regrettably I only properly discovered gin - via a Negroni - about 8 years ago.

Curiously TFA didn't dwell on advances & experiments in Australia, particularly the southern states, such as Tasmania, where there's been a some tremendous examples of the art.

Shene Poltergeist gin would bring into the fold even the most vehemently anti-g&t drinker. (Though mixing that with tonic would be a ghastly waste.)

Ophir (UK), St George Terroir (US), or Gin Mare (ES) are great places to start if you've historically just spurned the idea of gin.

Do you have a preferred recipe for a Negroni? My partner and I have been having a hard time getting over the flavor of Campari.

We usually have Tanqueray in the house for G&Ts and Carpano in the house for Manhattans, but we've had no luck getting a drinkable Negroni.

To the uninitiated, I would describe Campari as having the flavor of burning tires. I don't mean that perjoratively, I just don't have a better description.

Or please feel free to inform me that our palates lack sufficient refinement :-D

A negroni is equal parts Campari, Vermouth and Gin. Varying the brand of Vermouth or Gin has the biggest impact. Subbing out Campari makes it another cocktail. Should be swapped out for another Amaro (Herbally Bitter Liquer) such as Cynar, Gran Clasico or Brut Americano (never Aperol, too sweet). I'm partial to using Cynar (pronounced chee-nahr) which I've heard be called a Sin-Cyn (sin-chin).

You can also try swapping the gin for whiskey to make a boulvadier and see if that more to your liking as well.

I've had mixed success subbing Montenegro Amaro or Fernet for Campari.

Very different flavors, though, and the type of "aromatized wine" (aka vermouth) will have an impact.

These are all truths to heed. I can also recommend the book Cocktail Codex[1] for anyone interested in learning more about making cocktails, it's a very interesting take on the subject.

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/160774970X

It sounds like you don't like the bitterness of Campari and you're not alone in that. I guess it just takes time to develop the taste.

There are many delicious Negroni riffs, but the standard and classic is always equal parts gin/Campari/vermouth. I use a good London Dry gin (personal preference for Beefeater) and Carpano.

The nice thing about the Negroni framework is that you can substitute a huge number of different things into it; you can swap Aperol for the Campari if you want the same overall character with less bitterness, or Cynar if the bitter works for you but the citrus doesn't. Or most amari; in fact, a Negroni is a pretty decent way to use all the weird amari you'll find if you go looking for them. Negronis are super versatile.

They're too sweet in the equal-parts recipe; bump up the gin.

Carpano (at least Carpano Antica, which I think it their common vermouth) is also a very strong flavor. IMO if you're doing equal parts gin/campari/carpano you're totally obliterating the gin flavor.

For a classic and smoother negroni, try:

- 1.5oz gin (Tanqueray is fine, but I'd recommend Ford's)

- 1oz campari

- 1oz sweeter, less intense vermouth like Contratto Rossi or Dolin Rouge

If you want to use your Carpano, I really like this negroni variation called a Kingston that uses rum:

- 1.5oz Smith and Cross rum

- 1oz Campari

- 1oz Carpano Antica

Carpano is a good beginner vermouth if you're just getting into this, because it's so sweet and distinctive, but it's also a total overpowering vanilla bomb. Punt e Mes is in the same ballpark but less like drinking vanilla extract. Or just replace the vermouth entirely with Lillet or sherry.

A Negroni is 1:1:1, not 1.5:1:1

The original recipe is, sure. But part of the fun of cocktails is experimenting with what tastes you prefer. The parent said they weren't enjoying what they ended up with, so I'm recommending tweaks. A little extra gin is a pretty standard way to make the campari more palatable, used in plenty of bars.

Sure, but if you tweak the recipe it’s no longer the original drink and instead is something else. A Negroni is 1:1:1, that’s not the same as saying that’s the perfect balance

yes and the original manhattan recipe calls for equal parts vermouth and whiskey. you probably wouldn't want to drink it like that.

not only do people's tastes change over time, but so do the ingredients themselves. you can't necessarily buy the exact same gin, vermouth, and campari that was available to the count a hundred years ago. of the gins and vermouth available today, there is quite a range of diversity. you leave a lot on the table if you aren't willing to tweak ratios based on the ingredients you have.

Not a lot of bartenders would agree with you that 1:1:1 makes the best Negroni, even though it's the original recipe.

As others have noted, without the Campari it's technically not a negroni - and you can try Aperol (makes it a Contessa), or being more faithful you could try another bitters.

Here in AU some bars make a fully Australian negroni, using local equivalents.

(Otherwise Most bars will use Cinzano as the default vermouth -- it's acceptable, but nothing special.)

Domestic versions of vermouth exist, eg. Margan in Broke, NSW make some delicious dry and sweet vermouths. Not common, though.

Same for bitters - there's the confusingly named 'The Italian', from the Adelaide Hills (South Australia) distillery, which is a magnificent take on bitters.

I'd suggest looking around for some imaginative variations local to your area, as there's a lot going on with these types of drinks lately (as per TFA). Great news for the sophisticated addict.

Or maybe go for some variations -- in addition to a Contessa (too sweet for me) you can look at the Hanky Panky, which is a delicious cocktail, and worth ordering just for the name.

If you're interested in trying Campari in other settings in order to acquire a taste for it, I would suggest trying a Jasmine: http://drinkboy.com/Cocktails/Recipe.aspx?itemid=88

I STRONGLY suggest doing it "built". 1/2oz Aperol, 1oz sweet vermouth, and 1.5oz gin. Aperol is a sweeter version of Campari that when used less of, really brings the gin more to the front of the drink

Dilute with extra gin.

Standard Negroni is 1:1:1 and by far the best. Occasionally I’ll get one at a bar that I can tell is a different ratio and it’s so much worse.

Try Aperol instead.

I prefer St. George Botanivore, but I respect Terroir.

Also, Monkey 47 and Nolets for particularly floral gin. M47 is pricey, Nolets is almost as good for about half the price.

I've only tried the Terroir, but heard there's three in the 'range'?

In Australia we're spoiled for variety with local products, but I'm guessing because of the pain of doing so, only the larger foreign distilleries export over to Australia, and presumably not their full ranges of spirits.

Will keep an eye out for Botanivore, in any case, as I'm quite taken with the Terroir.

The other one is a rye aged gin. Obviously, it has a bit more of a whiskey tone, but it is good as well.

Cool, thanks for the heads up. I've got an order in for the Botanica (a few places seem to have that, happily).

Looks like only one Australian stockist for the Dry Rye, and they're out of stock. It's on my backlog list now.

Botanist when you want ALL the favlors. And as a bonus it's 96 proof, too.

I'll know in a few days, but it sounds like this may be the North American equivalent of the Poltergeist Unfiltered (out of Tasmania, Australia) -- which keeps winning Golds (or better) in global gin awards / competitions.

'All the flavours' is a great description -- it's not a muddle of competing flavours, it's just really a very busy (and terribly pleasant) combination.

Can confirm.

St George Botanica is tremendously good.

If you enjoy that, and want something just like it but even more so -- hunt down a bottle of the Poltergeist Unfiltered, and thank me later.

I'd suggest the Botanica is on a par, quality and complexity wise, with the Poltergeist 'True Spirit'.

Putting in a plug for Brooklyn Gin. It's turned my entire Southern bourbon-swilling family into gin drinkers. It's small-batch gin distilled in, well, you guessed it. http://www.brooklyngin.com/

All good suggestions. Also – the Martinez cocktail is another great initiation to gin, and my favorite of all cocktails. It's my goto benchmark drink as well, I've never been to a good bar that messed up my Martinez.

+1 for Terroir

Delightful gin right there.

Where I live in Bend, Oregon there are tons of western junipers to the east of town in the "high desert". I chatted with a local distiller and apparently they don't use them for their gin, though. They import them from Italy of all places.

The taste must vary a lot. A few years back a friend of mine was experimenting with making his own liquors. I, having a bunch of juniper trees, got him some juniper berries. The resulting "gin" smelled amazing but tasted absolutely disgusting. My guess was that there are specific types of juniper berries that should be used.

Are western junipers not suited for making gin?

Guess that distillery doesn't prefer it. Other articles on line show people trying to use it with some success...

The Dollop podcast did a hilarious episode on the British Gin Craze recently: https://dollopengland.libsyn.com/10-the-gin-craze

Love the article. Were I reading it last last night, it would be while sipping a Sapphire and tonic for sure. Learned much I did.

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