Capital One refused my fraud claim because a chip was used | Hacker News Reader

Capital One refused my fraud claim because a chip was used

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38 pointsfortran7716 comments

Looking through the comments on reddit, there are a number of people people stories about how something similar happened to them and it turned out that either 1) they had been mailed a new card that was intercepted and successfully activated by someone, or 2) despite what the bank claimed, it turned out the transaction wasn't actually a chip transaction, so these are probably good possibilities to look into if this happens to you.

#1 is interesting. Someone can have a dupe card sent to you and steal your mail. And the bank won't reverse the charge. That seems like "chip fraud" of a sort. Allowing the banks not to be liable for fraud on "chip cards" seems like a mistake.

Would this be considered fraud eligible for a reversal if they had swiped the same card? (Eg the store chip reader was broken)

Would the original card continue to work in that case? You could simply state that you never requested a replacement card and still have the old card in your possession.

It looks like cloning your chip is already a thing as well as other types of attacks. It doesn’t make sense why banks would deny fraud claims,

> It doesn’t make sense why banks would deny fraud claims,

So that they don't have to pay out those claims.

It doesn't make sense why that is allowed though.

Honestly, I don't understand why we don't use PINs here in the US for credit transactions, and most places don't even ask me to sign. I'm surprised there isn't _more_ fraud with our super lax financial system.

My family used apple pay, and ended up paying for the person on the other counter as well. Not sure how it happened, but I got the detailed receipts from the card provider. It indicated 2 transactions on 2 different counters, at almost same time!

Target was nice enough to give a gift card for that amount.

Any recommendation for US credit card with following features: * Virtual credit card # for online purchase. * Secure mobile app that get notifications on all spending immediately. * Any other security features I should consider?

In Europe, I was told that they employ a chip-and-PIN strategy. I'm not aware of this being possible in the US. Anyone know?

Chip and PIN is technically possible in the US, however the issuers have generally decided not to support it. Apparently they think that customers will forget their PINs, and so they would rather just deal with the fraud.

Chip-and-PIN (EMV) requires the card to be inserted into the payment terminal. The PIN can be verified online or offline (using the cryptographic hardware on the card). On a recent trip to the US, most places I saw had the requisite hardware, but they almost always still swiped my card.

A lot of low value transactions are now done by Contactless in Europe (adoption varies by country). Typically there is a limit per transaction (€30 in my country) and per day. Above this amount you will be prompted to enter the PIN (without inserting the card). Most banks also require you to enter the PIN every X transactions. As I understand it, almost all new terminals support Contactless, it's just a question of whether that merchant and their issuing bank have it enabled. The same hardware can be used for Apple/Google/Samsung pay as well.

Chip-and-PIN really sucks for consumers, but many US institutions are able to do it if you ask.

Citation needed.

Seriously, I can enter my pin far more quickly than the alternative of print -> find flat surface -> sign -> return. And we have contactless for small transactions where you might swipe and not sign, which is again faster. Both of which allow you to verify the amount on screen.

What really sucks for consumers is the ridiculous and completely standard US practice of restaurants/bars returning a slip to sign and add a tip along with the customer’s card. This means that without the card and away from view the staff can add an arbitrarily large additional charge to the card at some later point, and the only way to check the actual amount is to write it down a second time and check the statement.

>Seriously, I can enter my pin far more quickly than the alternative of print -> find flat surface -> sign -> return.

Now you have to pay attention to the machine for an extended period of time instead of just waiting for someone to hand you a pen and the receipt. Terrible keypads seem to be the norm so it’s hardly easy to rapidly enter your pin every time.

As far as finding a flat surface goes, do you not have arms? You literally only need to touch the pen on the paper, nobody cares what your signature looks like.

>And we have contactless for small transactions where you might swipe and not sign, which is again faster.

Yes, we have contactless. I don’t see how this is related to chip and pin?

If we’re going to go there then ApplePay with fingerprints is obviously the ultimate solution for these payments, which I think just further supports my firm opinion that I shouldn’t be required to remember PINs for the two places where ApplePay doesn’t work.

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