Heliogen targets 1500°C solar thermal
vox.com
vox.com
"started operating in 1970", "Temperatures above 3,500 °C (6,330 °F) can be obtained in a few seconds".
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace
Not dismissing this press release, but at least some scale of progress should be used to compare against. Or state where the economical/industrial/regulatory innovation stands.
(In all seriousness, the security risks are pretty low here. This isn't like stealing nuclear fuel.)
I’m not meaning to “correct” your statement, because the actual practicalities of these systems Is not my expertise and there may be other much more significant factors to consider
Odeillo's purpose is to heat things very high and very quickly, not to produce power. It's a tool for materials research not a solar power demonstrator.
There is a solar power research site nearby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themis_(solar_power_plant)
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2019/11/...
TL;DR Traditional CSP is aligned once, Heliogen aligns continuously. This allows them to correct for individual panel changes in warping, settling, weather, dust, etc. This approach also allows them to use cheaper hardware.
Motors and circuitry on each mirror instead of a simple screw drive are certainly not making the setup cheaper
It smells to me like a second Solindra in making
> Rather than assembling large, complicated, curved heliostats (mirrors) on site, eSolar used small, flat, prefabricated heliostats of only about a square meter. They were cheaper, faster and easier to set up, more modular, and easier to replace.
> Gross’s key insight was that he could replace a lot of the material and labor involved in CSP with computing power. (Or, he could replace stuff with intelligence.) Rather than make bigger, more complicated mirrors, he made small, simple ones and controlled them with software, so they stayed aligned more precisely and produced more power.
I did, their entire premise is invalid. They are either very bad at math, or engineering, or both.
The metal part, screw drive, and simple pulleys and etc are nor hard, nor expensive. Saying it otherwise is purest bs.
The limits of precision of theodolite are more than enough position for precise initial reference.
Existing solar thermal farms were not designed for generation of process heat in mind to begin with, so them saying that they suck at that because of their "design" is a PR trick.
Existing thermochemical processes are profitable enough to burn oil for them, and if one minds anything cheaper, they will first consider CHP colocation before thinking of anything as weird as this.
And tanks to economy of scales, electronic systems are now often cheaper than mechanical ones.
We'll keep the original article's title, since it's more specific.
Last time this was posted the “AI” component of the play was less clear... But with an array of mirrors, in particular being to generate heat in some volume I guess a more complex feedback/control system may be required.
I suspect that the "AI" they mention is mostly photogrammetry - being able to tell the position and orientation of your mirrors from a video stream - in a feedback loop with motor controllers and temperature sensors. Use of cameras would make it close enough to "AI" that the buzzword would stick.
This. Modern photogrammetry uses computer vision techniques like deep neural nets.
It's an amazing advancement.
Imagine this problem: having to place a ground vehicle like a wheeled robot at an arbitrary coordinate in a room. The mirror positioning problem can be reduced to this one. Traditionally, you'd do it by building a very nice wheeled robot with non-slip wheels, wheel rotation angle sensors, fraction of a degree stepper motors, all very nice to work with, precise, and expensive. You could even solve this in an open-loop system with good enough actuators.
Today, just stick a camera on the ceiling - or on the robot, if want a more challenging problem - and use CV to move a cheap RC car where you want.
The Terminator will jangle and jiggle, instead of being built like a precise Swiss watch. But you'll get ten of them for the same price!
I'm surprised to hear that. What good do DNN do for photogrammetry? Aren't they too unreliable?
I only have university course-level exposure to this, most of it spent learning how to compute coordinate systems and transformation matrices from points on a set of pictures taken from different position. I guess DNNs could help with object isolation and labeling (identifying same objects on a set of pictures taken from different perspective)?
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccj1O7yndIk
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOuonMhEsxI
* https://www.groundai.com/project/df-slam-a-deep-learning-enh...
The Related work section in the DF-SLAM paper is great.
As you intuited, DNNs work great for tracking visual landmarks (better than traditional computed features) between frames. They can also estimate depth from a monocular camera, which is very useful.
A more out-of-left-field idea is training a CNN to directly regress the camera pose (position and orientation) from an image:
The light is being reflected and focused by mirrors. That light is being directly onto some volume of material. So, in this case, they want to get the material above some critical temperature (e.g. so it melts). I imagine that uniformly heating the whole volume may not be the best approach, or that you may be able to work with smaller volumes depending on your expected solar input etc.
So I can see a little more justification here than the case where solar cells are just being pointed at the sun.
It sounds like what they have is machine vision as a novel input into a conventional control loop. For one panel at a time, wiggle it about and look how the light spot changes. Find the local maximum for tightest spot. That's now "locked" in the PLL sense and should stay locked for days or weeks.
I'm sure there are tons of considerations that aren't occurring to me (for instance, thermal expansion likely contributes substantially to making it a moving target (literally)), but I really don't see where "AI" comes into it...
The so-called "AI" here is really just a clever way to use closed-loop control so that the above factors don't matter much.
(Side note: A large amount of "AI" these days just amounts to changing open-loop mechanisms to closed-loop, often by using computer vision as the state sensor. 3D printers, for example could become much more precise with no mechanical improvements if they did this. Probably some have already done so.)
I'm not sure how to make such a simple system for mirrors pointing at targets, but I suspect "AI" and "cameras" are overkill.
That's how it's been done for like 40 years. No vision or "AI" required.
Ground vibration might also be a problem, in applications where this is being used to generate heat for some heavy industrial application. Presumably in that cast said heavy industrial application would be taking place nearby, and so could disturb the ground under the mirrors or tower.
Control loops are everywhere, but CD-ROM drives do not use machine vision. That's why op said that's the novel part.
You also need precise surveying of the ground site to know its geometry. The precise actuators and surverying are expensive.
Their approach is using cheap actuators in a closed-loop system where a computer vision controller (using the four cameras on top of the tower) moves the mirrors until it gets it right. Cheap actuator slip and lag is terrible, but with the feedback of the closed-loop, it's doable.
This is an approach that's now allowing hobbyists to build cheaper motorised telescopes, robot arms and so on.
This is how you can store huge blocks of ice well into the summer (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_house_(building)), but also how a giant underground mass of molten salt that's not in physical contact with the surrounding ground could store a lot of heat for a long time.
You do need to do the initial melting work though. It took two months for Crescent Dunes to melt its 32 tons of salt.
CSP requires a large investment compared to PV solar, as it needs to be done at scale to make coolant systems, towers, turbines and generators cost effective. It needs its own large allocation of land, rather than be distributed. It also, like PV solar, has poor temporal availability, so compares badly to fossil fuels, nuclear and hydro.
It has potential to be cheaper than PV, and integrate well with thermal energy storage. It could also be more efficient, if the temperature can be increased (due to Carnot efficiency). However, the convenience and falling prices of PV panels may prevent CSP becoming popular.
It didn't? There are both solar ovens and solar power plants in active use.
The issue's mostly that it's historically been fairly inefficient and expensive (compared to other electricity production sources). Prices have been coming down through improved efficiency and economies of scale, the plants being built these days are bid under $75/MWh and construction has been ramping up a lot especially in high-irradiation locations e.g. Morocco onlined their first station in 2017 (510MW CSP, 72MW PV) and is already building a second one, and Dubai is apparently aiming for 5GW installed by 2030.
[1] https://www.sciencealert.com/this-solar-plant-accidentally-i...
Of course conventional industry doesn't get a free pass here either, treatment and storage ponds, climate change, habitat destruction etc.
(I might be assigning far more importance to predator-Peru cycles than is warranted though, I was reading about what I now found is called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio... at a very young age and the concept stuck for life)
Is it comparable to the normal fluctuation in bird mortality in the area or is it so large that it has a disturbing effect on the population?
Of course fewer bird deaths would be good, and zero would be better.
But these bird deaths are noticed because of where they occur. What is the 'background' level, the death rate in the same place without the solar plant?
The Ivanpah installation is on a known migration route, presumably most other such installations will cause fewer bird deaths simply by not being on such a heavily used route. The article was a bit light on background information and I don't know how to find it.
6000 sounds like a lot to me. I have five acres near joshua tree, and while there is wild life the only stuff that seems to be abundant are some rodents, rabbits, and reptiles. It's a fragile ecosystem. There used to be tortoises supposedly, but the roads wiped them out.
PV fields for example don't cook the local fauna.