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Comment by oplav | Hacker News Reader

For those out of the loop, the Houston Astros have been accused of stealing signs between the pitcher and catcher by banging on a trash can in the dugout using a camera placed in center field.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/mlb/2019/11/12/2096191...

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There's more to it than just sign stealing. The Astros were the team that, allegedly, made "Moneyball" work well enough to win the Last Game of The Season. That they've been accused of stealing signs is a stain on that legacy.

[1] https://www.si.com/longform/astros/index.html [2] https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/24/houston-astros-sports-illu...

So the guy catching the ball tells the guy throwing the ball how to throw the ball?

And the other team is seeing what he's telling the thrower, and then signalling that to the batter so he knows how the ball is going to be thrown?

And this is disallowed ?

yet stealing bases is allowed?

There is a lot more going on in baseball than I thought!

> So the guy catching the ball tells the guy throwing the ball how to throw the ball?

Not quite. The catcher benefits from knowing the type of pitch in order to actually catch the ball, but only signals pitch options which are accepted or rejected by the pitcher.

They can also huddle if signs are being stolen, but this of course takes much longer (hence the prohibition on sign stealing).

Sorry, not American but this seems an interesting aspect of a sport I know nothing about!

Is this done because the catcher might know the batter is worse at hitting pitch type X, but is better at pitch type Y, so signals to the pitcher to throw an X?

But the pitcher might think he can't throw a good X right now (for whatever reason), and instead will throw a Z ?

And the pitcher and catcher need to somehow secretly agree on what's being thrown?

Does it ever happen that the catcher fails to catch it? It seems he has a pretty small window that he needs to catch it in, but then I guess sometimes these pitches are crazy fast and can't have much time to react.

Yes, the catcher does miss the ball occasionally. It's common for the pitches to be 90 MPH or higher. I've seen them as high as 104 MPH. The ball will also move; it's not always thrown in a straight line. Some times it cuts across the plate, other times it can drop as it crosses the plate. If the catcher knows where to expect the ball they have a higher probability of catching it.

A small correction, stealing signs is not disallowed, and pitchers and catchers will have different sets of signs they use when there is a runner on second base. What is disallowed is the use of technology to steal signs, the camera in center field going to the TV behind the dugout

To be specific, what is disallowed is using technology to steal signs (the camera). You can steal signs if there is a runner on second, although the pitcher and catcher can then change signs. It's one of the 'unwritten rules' in that it happens but they try to be sneaky about it. You don't want to disrespect the other team. More often with good scouting hitters can get an advantage of the pitcher is 'tipping the pitch', i.e. using a different delivery or setup depending on what pitch is coming. For instance, how high they hold the glove

Whenever I'm asked how I managed to do something and want to keep it mysterious, I always plead ignorance and say that Machine Learning told me to do it.

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