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Comment by rndgermandude | Hacker News Reader

I keep hearing that, and yet "sex sells" is ever so persistent and prominent in actual ads.

Both are a consequence of sex being taboo. We seek it, yet society reprimands you when you are explicit about it. They go hand in hand with anything that is forbidden.

See also The Apple.

Sex is taboo? Where is that? Maybe in sharia oriented societies - but in the US with it's prudish attitude they don't differ that much in this regard.

How many places is it legal to have sex in public?

I don't really want random people fucking in the streets, that's not even about the taboo aspect of it. Get a room.

That's exactly the taboo aspect of it.

Replace word “fucking” with any other activity and you’ll see how taboo it is. Hint, try “laughing”, “hugging”, “playing”

A softer facet is kissing in public, or PDA's how they're called by some. I find it ridiculous some people are offended by this, but maybe I am extremely shameless.

In a few European countries for instance, including Germany.

Though, taking Germany as an example, you might run into legal troubles if you make a nuisance of yourselves knowingly or on purpose. [1]

Americans are considered pretty prude, uptight, and christian fundamentalist when it comes sexuality here, while US citizens can have quite the culture shock and think us crazy. The laws surrounding sexuality are really just the tip of the iceberg.

[1]: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__183a.html

> Sex is taboo? Where is that? Maybe in sharia oriented societies - but in the US with it's prudish attitude they don't differ that much in this regard.

Wasn't sex outside marriage a felony in Utah until recently? Pretty sure the sharia wasn't applied there…

My point is that the American puritan roots are still alive and kicking, both in conservative circles obviously but also liberal circles with people getting "distressed" at the sight of any kind of eroticism in art or entertainment.

Until struck down by the Supreme Court in 2003, Sodomy laws existed in some US states. These targeted not just same sex couples, but often all couples and prohibited acts such as oral or anal sex even for married couples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_Stat...

Yes, that's what I said?

Definitely in the US, Europe not so much.

How long did the drama over a nipple being shown during the egg ball final last?

Drama only lasts a long time when there’s people on both sides arguing about it though.

This is what these “grand unified theories of American prudery” miss — the US isn’t a uniformly prude nation; it’s just a very large and diverse one. It contains people who are very prude as well as people who are the opposite — it contains people who write in to the FTC to complain about not-quite-nipples on TV, but it also contains the sort of people who thought that showing a 40 year old woman’s saggy boob during an afternoon football game was a good idea in the first place. It contains people who complain about porn, but it also contains most of the global porn industry.

In some areas of the US, we still teach kids (especially girls) that they are damaged if they have sex outside of marriage. That is instead of teaching about safe sex practices and things like that. We don't always take rape seriously - for either sex. Don't show a nipple on TV, especially not on "public" broadcast or during certain times of day. Certainly never, ever show a penis on these channels - that's especially vulgar.

These are all clues that sex is taboo. We can't even have honest conversations about it and it causes a bit of obsession with it devoid of healthy attitudes.

From where does it come from? I guess also from so called religious values or at least from what some of the Churches make out of it. I believe the polytheistic are much open minded regarding sexuality than the monotheistic ones - or maybe as Islam sprung from Christianity and Judaism and Christianity from Judaism it is only this specific strain that has a problem with sexuality.

The virginity thing comes from a time where women and girls were considered property, first of the family then of a husband, and potential husbands usually want(ed) a pristine product not a "used" one.

> believe the polytheistic are much open minded regarding sexuality than the monotheistic ones

Not really, it depends on whatever religion. Hinduism, 3rd largest of all religions and largest polytheistic religion, makes a big deal about premarital virginity of women, at least in all the major branches/sects of it.

So maybe it is probably the enshrinement of "I want to make sure that the woman only makes kids with the copies of my genes" into religious doctrine.

I agree. It probably got fixed into our instincts and our culture a long time ago.

I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of many of those advertisers. If it even is the advertisers themselves and not the facebooks and googles and apples themselves who only use "generic advertiser" as a scapegoat.

They are mostly Pointy-Haired Bosses. They breathe hypocrisy.

I don't think it does anymore. For example, superhero movies/movies in general don't even do kissing scenes anymore, even if they have a really big budget. This shows that it's seen as less and less important to the sales of a movie.

Counterpoint - J-pop and K-pop groups often have contractual obligations to not enter into a relationship, since that would mean that they become less attractive to their fans. So "no kissing scenes" might just mean "we want to let the viewers imagine that they could eventually date this person" or whatever.

Sex != Porn.

There is a fine line between what is somewhat accepted and what not. And porn usually is on the other side of it.

...I'm pretty sure that "sex sells" as a general statement has been debunked a while ago, though of course sex sells when sex is relevant to the product.

Just watch a music channel on TV. Half of the videos look like soft porn. Is that relevant to the music?

...maybe that's what the artists wanted to make. Also, "sex sells" is such gospel, and posting sex is such an ego thing to many execs, that I don't think the reality of its marketing efficiency matters much for network decision.

Proof or it didn't happen.

You can see all of this. the "sex" has to walk a line so as not to become vulgar .... but a run-of-the-mill piece of art will get more attention if it is being modeled by a pretty woman or shirtless man than if shown alone. Or if it is of a nearly naked woman (but a nearly naked man is vulgar).

> Proof or it didn't happen.

I don't know, the first two pages of Google if you enter "sex does not sell"? I could have linked contents, but I think I'll let you do the homework.

"sex sells art" gives a different sort of thing. Some of the google results for "sex does not sell" are headlining with things like, "Sex Doesn't Sell -- at Least Not in the Conventional Sense." and "When sex doesn't sell". These aren't exactly stellar endorsements.

It is pretty obvious that it does at times, even if we are aware of the biases. Of course, getting it wrong hurts and there is lots of nuance.

> It is pretty obvious that it does at times, even if we are aware of the biases.

...well gee, let's look what I wrote...

> ...I'm pretty sure that "sex sells" as a general statement has been debunked a while ago

See that bit about "as a general statement"? I never wrote that it _never_ sells.

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