I Wasn’t Prepared for Work (2013)
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I posted this because I was reminded of it after reading pg’s Bus Ticket essay—which to me was more about discovery than it was genius. When you have 10+ hours a day, 7 days a week, with no dependents and no job, there’s a lot of room to follow interests, as petty/useless/insignificant as they may be, and frequently if you spend that much time, you’ll discover new things or make new connections.
The conclusion of the story maybe is obvious in retrospect: that doesn’t happen (as easily) if you have a job (or family or partner or ...), even if your work is in an area you ostensibly love. You won’t have the same space to dive deep in areas that you choose, and you may not reach the same level of creative zen. It’s not something I realized going into the job market over a decade ago, and I think it’s a worthwhile consideration for people who value not being preoccupied with what time it is.
(For those expressing concern, don’t. Or those taking away that I’m not doing something that I like or following my passions, I am. I still do the things I like to do, but I don’t sacrifice everything else in life to focus on them exclusively. It remains to this day that that has its costs and benefits.)
> Or those taking away that I’m not doing something that I like or following my passions, I am. I still do the things I like to do, but I don’t sacrifice everything else in life to focus on them exclusively. It remains to this day that that has its costs and benefits.
Do you still have such creative intellectual pursuits? Do you think you’ll be able to write a follow-up post describing the equilibrium you’ve settled into now (and the associated trade-offs) and how you got there?
I feel the same as this guy in many ways. I dread to say it, but maybe it isn't the lifestyle (I didn't follow his path). Maybe this is what getting older does to us.
I stared in horror at the following:
"Here in Silicon Valley, it’s even worse. I have an aesthetically nicer place, but I now don’t even have a desk or desktop machine. I type from a small laptop on my couch, being held up by a pillow. I have no room for a chalkboard or whiteboard, unless I wanted to cover up half of my mirrored closet."
I am an east-coast developer and am totally spoiled with my home office. I never had an urge to move to silicon valley and this makes me even happier I'm not there.
Five computers spread out over three desks, two large bookshelves, a couch, and a fireplace.
The area is extremely nice except for parking and I live in a ~70sqm modernized apartment with my own home office and enough room for tech gadgets, a large couch, a large bed and a balcony... etc.
In the evening, restaurants, bars, cinema and nice parks are < 15mins walk away. Grocery store from cheap to luxurious are in the same range. I have access to good healthcare (aside from getting an appointment for specialists it's fine), insured the most important aspects of my life and if I want to go to another large capital I need 20mins to go to Central Station and take a train or 20mins to the airport and take a flight.
Aside from Apple and depending on what you want, all major Silicon Valley firms provide jobs in at least one of the larger German cities, notably Munich though.
I honestly do not understand why people are drawn to Silicon Valley so much - unless it's simply about the "environment of minds" if you are willing to sacrifice all other aspects of life to it to some degree (worse living situation, worse working conditions...). For innovation and startup life, I suppose it makes sense. But for a normal software engineer?
Can somebody explain this to me?
Why are film people drawn to Los Angeles?
More is different.
I don't think professional mathematicians would say you shouldn't pursue it. The opposite, actually. If people like myself who never practiced it in their own time can get degrees in it, so could you. You don't need to be any kind of genius.
Where X is as small as possible, and seek to cull it further by combining equivalents and trying to identify why some 'important' things might actually be utter wastes of time in the first place.
The world generally uses a ratchet approach to conquer your attention. Use a ratchet to take it back.
Or be an Epicurean and enjoy the neutral state most, pleasures but not at the expense of pain.
Or be a Stoic and find comfort in realizing you aren't invading Russia in the winter.
Recently, I've started to adopt a similar perspective by rigorously evaluating everything with a simple question: "20 years from now, will my kids be proud that I did this?" If the answer is no, I stop it. So far, I've stopped playing video games and using social media, and I've noticed that I've gotten an extra 10-15 hours per week to spend on things that will make me a better person in the long term, like reading, working out, and spending time with my friends and family.
The same approach could be used with any endeavor: "In X years, will I be better at <subject> if I continue to do Y?"
Delegating social media and other trivial pursuits to family and friends can free up an additional 10-15 hours per week for HN! :)
More seriously, to get the most out of HN:
1) skip the aviation and database threads and just read my posts. (There are very few qualified commenters on those topics.)
2) for other topics, read a few posts and if it looks interesting, find an in-depth article or blog on that topic.
They can and should be replaced by more effective forms of rest (meditation, sleep, walking, etc) but intellectual work just isn't happening in that state. Or if it does, it leads to a harder crash later.
I have to roll my eyes a little at the "produce X% more by working through your breaks" thing. If you can do that sustainably, why were you taking breaks to begin with?
I don’t meditate, I let my mind wander and don’t judge anything. The only rule is I’m not allowed to physically move, I find a comfortable position and must remain in that position for 10 minutes.
It’s excruciating at first, but about 5 minutes in my mind has processes whatever it had stored up and I’m tired. About 8 minutes in I’m shutting my eyes. Sometimes I have to give and just go to bed.
FWIW, that description seems compatible with meditation technique. Meditation can be non judgmental in that way, and just be a matter of experiencing the state of your mind.
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Before you recoil in disgust, let me note that I have read many many books and love reading. I value literature a lot but when it comes down to what I do in life and what things REALLY REALLY give me in the end, then books don't perform better than a range of selected video games (to my own gusto). In then end, a book doesn't propel to new positions more than a game does, unless it'sa book meant to teach me new technology or so.
It's simply another form of media, another form of story telling and conveying experiences. And while I enjoyed "Marc Aurel's Meditations" and took a lot of benefit out of it, Persona 5 also provided me with some good, memorable experiences that make me rethink life. Even just the "Take your time" loading screen spinner... If I put them on a scale it's simply even for me in value.
You should consider playing "Tales of Berseria". It poses an interesting question: "Why do bird fly?", and gives interesting answers.
I also bought a motorbike and will be upgrading that to a faster one next year, both medical conditions are under control and the medication works but now I'm determined to live my life on my terms for as long as I can rather than just drift.
I also ramped up the exercise and I'm now lighter and fitter than I was in my late 20's (I'm approach 40) - I think sometimes you have two choices, cave or say "fuck you" to the universe and carry on, I'm glad you picked the latter but I understand why someone would pick the former.
Props to you! That's a great attitude to have.
It's probably aligned with the "ask the busiest person you know" type of thing.
And yes I am more passionate about coding now, but that came from boredom. I learned Ruby then Haskell because I was bored of churning out C# all day, and I am glad I did. This lead me on to Elm which is my side project engine.
* They work with economies of scale. What may be viable for a startup might be useless for Google. What might be viable for Google might be absolutely disastrous for a startup.
* They use a management style that fosters innovation and learning.
The interviews can be tough, yeah, but all it takes is practice and given that you seem to have good mathematical skills, hiding a few weeks or months in the basement with an algorithms book and a laptop, should make it easy for you to pass a Google interview.
You are right though, getting into one of the bigs isn't impossible with a reasonable amount of work studying for the interviews and aggressively seeking connections It's just that the people willing and able to do that work are already showing they have the right mindset to be a good dev a anywhere
People died to get us a 40 hour work week and here we have all these brilliant folks putting us right back in chains. They think they're getting rich, but it is all a lie. A few are getting rich, the rest are being tricked.
There are also a number of true workaholics spending 60 hours + a week strictly working, but that's typically because they want to and not because the organization is running in permanent crunch mode.
How does one go about overcoming mental atrophy? Especially after spending a decade or more programming, I think most (if not all) developers battle with this problem...
If any one of you has successfully done this, please share.
About a decade and a half ago, I worked on eLearning systems and training materials. I've learned and forgotten about more things than I could probably think about when trying. I used to know, pretty intently how certain aircraft engines worked, now I'd have a hard time just simply describing how a jet engine works in general.
Why, because I don't use it regularly. I've since worked with other languages, platforms, systems and constantly learn. You will learn and forget a great many things in a lifetime. Most people would be hard pressed to remember as a young adult materials they covered in 5th grade.
What it comes down to is keep reading, learning and trying new things. You won't remember everything, don't even try. What you can do is keep your mind able to think.
As a small aside, avoid refined sugars and seed (vegetable) oils. There are a lot of significant links to dementia and Alzheimers disease aside from being two of the largest causes of inflammation from diet.
You set aside time for this intellectual stimulation. Don't let the work drain you off energy, your focus should be elsewhere.
Of course it's only really possible for very few people. But even a little bit might help. Personally we moved away from the city and to a small community. I started working remote and I've been working 60% or 80% for about a year (I wrote some words about it[0]). The rest of the time I've been writing a book.[1]
It's been quite helpful to keep the intellectual stimulation going, although I still have the stress of having to accomplish something, so it's not completely perfect. But I'm scared of going back to work 100% again, as I'm pretty sure it will kill any drive and energy I have.
[0]: https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2019/10/18/we_moved_away_fr... [1]: https://whycryptocurrencies.com/
If you want to avoid mental atrophy, my advice is to find that hunger, find some sense of intense beauty, and pursue it even if it goes against your instincts sometimes.
(also as others noted: you need to be in a position where you can plausibly even find and satisfy this hunger; if your work and commute occupies all your time that's not going to happen of course)
• Maintain my body
• Maintain a sense of mental tranquility
• Work on projects and learn things I find meaningful and interesting
• Visit my friends and family in my hometown regularly
• Have a good home life with my wife and someday children
• Have a job that keeps me interested but isn't so exhausting it detracts from the above
If you don't have a list like this, and you don't know what resonates with you, then your actions will be unguided and you'll not find any sense of peace or progress. Pay attention to what helps you be happy, reflect on it and use it to guide your choices and use of time in this life.
Programming is sufficiently difficult that time it takes to complete tasks can vary by more than order of magnitude. I've given a junior engineer a task that would take me 2 hours, had them come back with a solution in a week, and been happy with the result.
So if you achieve a certain level of skill you can take jobs that are "beneath you" and claim the tasks that took you 10-20 hours actually took you 40. It's not particularly honest, but most employers aren't willing to engage in fair market rates at 20 hours a week so people find ways to get what they want outside of the system.
I've had multiple times when, for whatever reason, I ended up not coding for months or years. It always takes at least a few days (and honestly, it's getting longer as I get older) to get my head back into it, but after month or so of full time coding I'm making progress again. And honestly, I feel like these breaks have made me a better software developer, because each time I come back with broader experience and a wider view of what I'm trying to accomplish.
Arguably I'm not as good a computer scientist as I would have been if I'd stuck just with coding for my whole life, but I feel like I'm a far better maker-of-useful-things.
I grew up with lots of clever people, met through math and science competitions and camps. Easily 80% of them, maybe 90%, have gone off to FAANG, investment banks, or consulting firms, and had the exact same fate. Nothing was stopping them from continuing to tinker with ideas. None of them would have gone hungry that way. They made a choice -- a perfectly fine, rational one -- but let no one say the result was surprising.
His account does bring up the awful-but-rarely-discussed issue how to keep even somewhat "mentally sharp" amidst all the demands of life.
When you regain 3+ of those hours, your mental atrophy will subside.
Also, if you are (or were) as brilliant as you say, then just go to grad school. You don't really need an undergrad degree!
The way I deal with this is getting the most highly paying job I can and then having three months off where I do what I please.
I've just finished a contract with an Evil Inc that's paid me enough that I can buy a lab to do synthetic biology in. While waiting for the machines to arrive I'm doing some really fun C.S. stuff I have not done before.
When the money runs out I will go back to doing what I was doing before. This is the 4th time I've taken time off. It hasn't hurt my career progression at all.
My partner and I own our own company and optimizing taxes is the main reason why we can afford buying $50k in equipment. That we have similar interests also helps.
It also seems related to mathematics and computer science as a hobby. If I want to go running, I can do so in an hour and be done with it. With mathematics or programming, I need a couple of hours before I start being productive. Most people who don't do math or programming don't understand this. They frown when I don't make any noteworthy progress in one or two hours, and when I try to work on something I keep getting interrupted which is detrimental to my productivity. I talked to my girlfriend about the long list of projects I still wanted to do (work on programming languages, operating systems, compilers, assemblers, FPGA's, memory controllers, reading/learning math stuff, and writing). A weekend later she asked me something along the lines of "Well, you've had the whole sunday morning to work on these things; Did you manage to cross some things of your list?". I mentioned that these are not one-day projects, but I won't be surprised if she'll ask again after christmas.
He should take a less-challenging job, perhaps, and get his work done quickly so that he can have lots of time left over for his own pursuits. I've had jobs in the past where I was able to do this with some success.
The idea that your job should challenge you is, perhaps, BS.
For so many jobs, the "challenges" consist mainly of dealing with political forces and/or forcing yourself to do other things you may not necessarily care about.
I would guess only a tiny percentage of us have jobs that are truly fulfilling. And maybe that's fine. Maybe we should go back to the days where we just punched the clock, figuratively speaking, and ditch the idea of getting fulfillment from our jobs. It's hurting our ability to find fulfillment elsewhere.
The dreaded word! Processes and systems, better figure out systems and processes that work for you fast.
You must figure out what works for you, here's a few for me.
I use a trello board to manage home tasks and personal tasks. I schedule things I need to do in my calendar. I use checklist to keep track of things I need to do. I even schedule fun activities so I don't burn out. When I can tell I'm running low on sleep, I schedule sleep alarms to remind me to go to bed. To dive deep into something when you don't have the time is tough, but you can do so by scheduling smaller times and keep detailed notes which you can reference to remember what you have done and where you were.
"Even Dwarves Start Small", by Younger Brother
This person spends 4 hours commuting each day. I would suffer from mental atrophy as well. If you work full-time, that's at least 8 additional hours per day down the drain, and that doesn't even include groceries, cooking, eating, taking a shower, etc. Barely any time is left if you want to get 7-8 hours of sleep. I think the soul-crushing reality here is that a commute like this is very unhealthy, and that he should change this by moving or getting another job.
In any case, I generally refuse jobs outside Amsterdam (where I live) unless it's Utrecht right next to the station. Otherwise the commute just gets too long. Sometimes a recruiter asks if there's really no way around that, and I tell them counting the commute as hours worked, meaning I'd be present at the office less, would work fine for me. I don't want to be forced to sacrifice private time for work.